NL Hafta Subscribers’ Take Ep 3: A special feedback episode

In this special episode of NL Hafta, Abhinandan Sekhri, Manisha Pande, Raman Kirpal, and Anand Vardhan catch up on all the letters – around 30 of them – that we’ve received from subscribers.

Hafta letters: Bigg Boss, aftermath of ‘vote chori’, caste issues, E20 fuel

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Produced by Amit Pandey and Hassan Bilal; recorded by Anil Kumar.

. Abhinandan: or News Laundry, APNA Hafta. Our subscribers take ka. We are back with our regular subscribers take, which is not weekly, so that we can actually address all the emails that were left out of our regular hafta. We are recording this on the 2nd of September, Tuesday at 3:00 PM Uh, yes, she's on leave. So on the panel, our, our in-house gang of Al.

Hello man. Hi. Hello. And I'm ab. And before we take on the subscriber's take, we have about, I think 40 odd emails.

Hmm.

But that's the backlog, the headline that has just come in. The Delhi ha court has rejected the bail, please of Jihan [00:01:00] Abdul Fatima Miran Rahman, Mohammad Salim Khan, and Shabbat Hamad in the 2020 Delhi riots, larger conspiracy case.

Manisha: Yeah.

Abhinandan: And, uh, on broadcast, uh, wall to wall, there is, uh, the Prime Minister in a very emotional voice, trashing the opposition for claiming that his mother was abused using their platform. And very obediently, all the broadcasters are carrying that as it's the most important thing of the day. Uh, and I quite honestly found that entire, uh.

Noise around it on broadcast, nauseating. Uh, it's sad what our journalists have to deal with. Some of these people have known they're reasonable people. What they have to do these days is just so sad. But let's get to the subscriber's. Take, I repeat. We have a new system of addressing emails. It is because you were getting so much of feedback for [00:02:00] a regular hafta, that one to one and a half hours of hafta would just get taken up by email.

So we take four to six emails on hafta and all the backlog is addressed once every five to six weeks in subscribers take. You can mail us only if you're a subscriber. You can mail us at podcasts@newsrun.com or click in the link in the show notes below. We only address the feedback of subscribers. If you just want a general Tiffany and abuse, you can leave it on our Twitter or YouTube comments.

Manisha, you wanna start?

Manisha: Yeah. So before we begin all the emails that are above 150 words, we've used AI to compress them. So we shall be reading the AI summary and hopefully AI has done justice to these letters. The first one is by Mana, uh, who says, I think Abend should consider going to Big Boss. As he often says, he visits colleges hoping a few students will subscribe to NL Big Boss offers a far bigger platform, even if it brings just 10 new subscribers, that's a win, especially since he'll also be paid [00:03:00] for participating.

The money could be channeled into the next NL project or even be kept aside for potential legal battles. Moreover, many big boss viewers have lightly never heard of him when his name is announced. People will Google Search go, go on his Instagram. If NL simultaneously releases sharp nuisance episodes backed with SEO, the search results will amplify N L's brand, even if the game is rigged or his words muted.

The visibility alone would give NL unexpected traction across new regions, essentially delivering a free center project and valuable marketing at zero cost. Well missed opportunity.

Abhinandan: Thanks, Manan. But like, you know, the decision was taken. You have a point, but I just weighed the pros and cons and honestly,

Manisha: I, and honestly, I'm seeing some of the contestants that you won't have fit in at all.

Abhinandan: Uh, incidentally, someone sent me a, a link

Manisha: spiritual, some woman claiming to be some spiritual, I don't know. The whole thing seems just

Abhinandan: anan. You haven't waited on this. You weren't here when the [00:04:00] offer that I got that to go on. Big Boss season 19.

Anand: Yes, I was it a wasted

Abhinandan: opportunity of getting news, laundry brand out there among the 300 million viewers?

Can you imagine? That's the view of a big boss? I would never have imagined wasted opportunity or good choice.

Anand: Your choice.

Abhinandan: Okay. He has non-committal, but, uh, just, someone sent me a link to an interview, uh, with the, one of the participants, a big boss, Ika, uh, she's a actor.

She

was there in a bunch of films in the nineties.

In two thousands. And, uh, they've asked her, who do you want should be in Big Boss. Hmm. Who do you wanna with? So she said, Shahi, har or Ish. Kumar or Manisha, or,

Manisha: Ooh, Manisha. This actually happened.

Abhinandan: It, it's an interview. It's in, it's in a published, someone sent me a link. I'll send it. Mm.

Manisha: Anyway, Raje Krishna Swami.

Hi Bernan. I'm a subscriber and have haha and often an awesome necessary evil and South [00:05:00] Central on my watch list. While we keep hearing about the willingness of the courts to entertain multiple legislative matters, PIL now being known as privilege IL, et cetera. As a resident of Tamal Nadu, we have had the government going for reviews against all adverse decisions to the Supreme Court and are represented by senior lawyers who do not appear for pocket change.

I'm curious to know how much the other states pay for such representation, if not actual value. Would we be able to get any source to understand the absolute number of such cases that have gone to Supreme Court from the different states, Manisha and Ri hat off you method in the madness Regards. Rajesh, I believe trivia helps me from drowning in sorrow in today's 10.

India, meaning today's 10 India

Abhinandan: and we a typo.

Manisha: Okay,

Abhinandan: but so what I understand is, uh, we have government going for reviews against solid worst decision. How much do other states pay for such representation?

Manisha: So when you represent the state and Supreme Court, do they, I'm guessing it must be pro bono.

Anand: [00:06:00] What happens is that every state government has a council Supreme Court and, uh, they pay retain fee fee to him.

Uh, which may be annual package or something, but for some special cases, uh, even uh, laws other than the council representing a state government in regular matters is hired. Sometimes in suppose a case requires certain degree of expertise in certain otherwise, most states have this system of having own their own in the Supreme Court representing them, but they

Raman : have impediment, they have 15 to 20.

Paid nominal money every year. So they, they, they create an impairment, but when, uh, whenever any case comes up, their duty is to notify the state government. So if the, uh, and, and as in when the case comes up, then the court, uh, the state government decides who [00:07:00] should go and represent and

Abhinandan: then it need not be empa and then they can pay shitloads of money.

The impanelment are just, is that, isn't that right? The

awareness,

which is what that whole jaar was. Right. The Delhi government had engaged Abbi Mani to defend advantage Val in that entire case that the central agency, and he was paid his market rates. So there is a market rate element to it, right, Arnold?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It means

Anand: for certain cases, uh, there's other lawyers than the council can be hired. So yeah. So

Abhinandan: there is

Anand: no average number, I'm guessing.

Manisha: Hmm. A Gupta says, I will keep my questions short, but feel free to answer them in detail. What's the meaning of the NL symbol? Is it a Claude Dry clip? If yes, then why?

Yes. It's a claudin.

Abhinandan: Yes. And if you see the early, because news, laundry was laundry and we, once you wash something clean, we pin it up to dry. If you watched Clothes Line, which was the show mother used to host, uh, her opening line was [00:08:00] welcome to Clothes Line where you wash 'em clean, uh, where we ring them up, ring them up and string them up to dry on the string 'em

Manisha: up on the clothes line.

Abhinandan: On the clothes line.

Manisha: So it's the,

Abhinandan: yeah.

Manisha: Who came up with it?

Abhinandan: The, uh, Milan Mogi. He came up with the logo. He's an NID graduate. He's one of the most talented designers I've met. He's a friend. He didn't charge us anything. He came up with a vesting card. Uh, the, the current logo is, uh.

Manisha: Please have a discussion about the rampant pro BGP gerrymandering, which will take place after the deal limitation because of the BGP appointed ECI, I think you should start a monthly, not weekly video segment, like nuisance and tip to criticize insensitive or misinformed, misplaced news coverage dissemination by newspapers and social media influencers, self side journalists.

As a primarily media watch organization. You shouldn't cage newspaper criticism to the annual website. Also, you should review the new media channels, digital media more [00:09:00] regularly instead of rarely filling in some criticism of new media. In nuisance of Tiffany, I nominate Charul Mo Wi and Bold coverage, or anin more diplomatic and respectful criticism for this monthly segment.

Not counting gtri because she might have trouble speaking Hindi,

Abhinandan: what do you think? An, uh, weekly segment? Monthly, monthly, weekly, monthly, monthly, just critiquing print media, something you see yourself being able to do or it. Are you in

Manisha: digital?

Abhinandan: Wouldn't there be too much of stuff?

Ndi, you take five big English, five big ndi,

Anand: quite a lot of work.

Abhinandan: So is that a good thing or not? Is that something you'd consider?

Anand: Yes. You can consider anything.

Abhinandan: So clearly it's not up then, but to get to the point, I mean, I don't know. Uh, I get, if there's something extremely outrageous in print, we do carry some commentary on it. We used to have a [00:10:00] segment, which was a balanced segment in the early days of news laundry, where we would see the side edit, so the op-ed page of a newspaper and you tell the slant on a specific issue.

We've discontinued that because honestly, not a bun lot of people interested in that. But we had, we had that, um, it, it was in fact daily, the side edits.

Manisha: Uh, we now look at editorials on a specific issue. Like say if there's, uh, the last time when the press conference happened. So we looked at what the editorials had to say the next day, the GaN these press conference on both jury.

So what the editorials had to say the next day or an issue of press freedom. But it could be interesting, it could be a monthly at least, or maybe the shows could on, you know, every month kind of. I think

Abhinandan: that the, the easy thing about, well, not easy, but the reasonably contained thing about broadcast is we primarily, you know, focus on prime time, which means you're looking at four or five big [00:11:00] channels between eight and 11, and there is gonna be one or two things that stand out, but if you look at a newspaper for seven days, there is no primetime equivalent unless you just see the headline.

So the amount of stuff that either could be whopped or bizarre is. It's just too much to sift through. Hmm.

Manisha: So the thing says high NL team, what theft is the biggest scam in this country, but you guys only spend 25 minutes on it then you people are the first one to blame the opposition for not doing anything.

You could have at least tried to record a separate podcast it by blame the G media when media platforms like you are not even ready to have a full fledged discussion. I think we had many discussions on, we

Raman : had three if I remember correctly, and plus number of stories that we have done. We've done so many stories.

Please list all stories, but we'll not

Manisha: call it word theft because like there's no proof of theft. But we have looked in a very detailed looked and we are also

Raman : wanna come up with many, many more stories. Yeah.

Manisha: Yes. Lots on the [00:12:00] SIR we've done and many discussions. Also, we've done at least one haah and two churches.

If I'm not mistaken, man, cha says, I just heard ABS recommendation from last Haftar, A Good Walk POed by Malcolm Gladwell. It was nice. It made me realize cast systems everywhere. In every society on earth, we just call it different names or other, it's not called, so I was visiting Greece ago. I went to a village where they had no running water.

They had to go down, fill up huge tanks of water in their car, a pickup trap, and get it up. It seemed unreal to me to imagine this in Europe, the most developed region on earth, the first world. And turns out it's true for a lot of places all across Europe. Inequality is a big issue, even amongst the original population.

Forget the situation with immigrants. That gets most media spotlight. Hmm.

Raman : Even a US officials spoke in terms of. Cast are making money made international headlines. I mean, honestly,

Abhinandan: I think he used the word without knowing what? Without knowing anything. I think there was no context. He must have heard somewhere ki uh,

Raman : [00:13:00] upper cast people make money.

Abhinandan: No, he must have heard the mage. So he must have said, let me payload this.

Manisha: It was the strange. Who would've thought the Trump administration would say this? Yeah. The last time, uh, I remember when Jack Dossey was the, the former Twitter ceo e and he stood up with this girl who had this placard bra patriarchy, how much firo there was.

And there was this, this leftist ecosystem that's taking over the media. Now we have Marga guy is talking about cars as a strange thing.

Abhinandan: But I remember this again, I think he just repeated this word. He doesn't get the context of, I remember when we were in school. I think this was 1988 or 86. When was the Mper games?

Um, six or eight. Huh? Eight, eight. 96. No, no, I'm talking about the eighties. You were in class I think 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah. So Olympics, right? Friends. He used to read the paper and can't payload the same lines. So he came You talking about Olympics or did you see, I think BCA was the pool world champion or he said, [00:14:00] he said, he says Eastern block has dominated the Olympics.

We heard him, but we did not. After too many Eastern block has dominated five. We said, okay, name the country and the eastern block. He could not even name one. 'cause he had read

Manisha: that, just read that line. So,

Abhinandan: ah, man is like that.

Manisha: Yeah, he was probably just, he

Raman : might have gone to some, uh, Hindu family over there.

Oh, maybe some report

Manisha: somewhere had mentioned this in terms of the immigrants that come, it wasn't any sense.

Abhinandan: No, but, but I must say one thing, and this is something that. Uh, I mean, I think, of course we don't expect broadcast media too, but at least the few groups I'm on, I keep posting stuff on, uh, you know, and know all the bugs.

And Adrian saying, you know, doing pro Trump stuff and whatever of the so-called much maligned liberals had said that this is the kind of person Trump is. And no matter what your immediate interest, you cannot tie your fortunes with a buffoon like him. Now. [00:15:00] The same media. The traditional media. Who's saying Ari Chemistry VO is saying that UL is an American agent.

Trump. Trump and UL Chinese agent. Ah, yeah, dude, it is bizarre.

Manisha: Okay, next email. Ral says, hi all. This is my first feedback email, though I've been a subscriber for long, I wanted to share a few thoughts on the recent vote Cho allegations by Aldi. Most debates, including news laundry, argue that Foic water data he highlighted is already known, so malicious since.

Intent is unlikely. But I think the real point is different malice enters if these fake voters actually voted, which should never happen. It's not just about faulty rules, but whether these names were used to manipulate outcomes, this crucial distinction is being overlooked. Another point, no one is discussing the Form six anomaly out of 33,000 plus new registrations.

None. Were aged 18 to 23. Most were older. Can this really be dismissed as a clerical error? [00:16:00] It looks deliberate, not routine. Have we seen such a pattern before? Thanks for reading, and I hope this perspective adds to the discussion.

Abhinandan: I mean, I don't know about the, the significance of the 18 to 23. Again, I will not say with confidence that there was no malice with the data discrepancy.

I mean, I think it's likely there's malice. I don't think anyone's taken a position. But in order to take a firm position, there has to be very, very clear evidence as far as I'm concerned. Vote, sorry. But vote denial has happened in the deli polls. I can tell you for sure. There's documentary evidence, even the UPI polls where people of particular basti particular communities were not allowed to get to the voting booth.

Uh, there were certain areas where there were so many voting booth that people didn't have to even wear 20 minutes. There were certain areas where voting booth, you had to wait six s. So vote denial is a reality and I think there's enough evidence for that. Whether this is a part of that or not. I don't have firm position.

And we can [00:17:00] ask around, is this anomaly unusual? Is there a pattern, an what, what you, it's your state which has highlighted this. Although ma I think one of

Anand: the letters earlier that, uh, said that it's the biggest scam now there is too much drama. That is a very dramatic statement. So conclusive one is not sure whether it's a scam.

And to say that it's a biggest scam, I think is an overstatement of overstatement. But, uh, vote denial, uh, happens also. Mm. One is through political mechanism. One is through social forces. Also, like particular dominant groups in know Village don't let other groups to, to vote. Now, uh, like, uh, say others are dominant in a village, they will not let.

The s cast would, or, and the power dynamics changes, which communities dominated, [00:18:00] dominating in that village. So that, that is one thing. Uh, so that kind of thing has been a pattern, but it has, uh, lessened from say, seventies, eighties, nineties. It, it, it is, uh, the, at least the social aspect, uh, uh, has receded a bit of what denial, um, because of a lot of empowerment of caste group leadership and other forces that have catapulted, uh, leadership of other groups in the political vortex of power.

So that is, I think that's a receding feature, would denial from on the social plank.

Manisha: Okay. Next letter. Dear ab Andan, I've been a regular listener and subscriber since 2023, and I've always valued the rigor and independence of your journalism. That's why I found the recent episodes of Htan Nuisance, quite disappointing the ECI [00:19:00] developments and Raul Gandhi's press conference for belly discussed around 2.5 minutes in total, while 12 minutes went to the dog protest and the closing stretch largely to NL subscription appeals.

It felt like the episode had little to offer on such a critical issue, which is frustrating as a paying supporter over the two, three weeks. Hafta has also become noticeably shorter and nuisance, increasingly repetitive. Also a long time subscriber. This deepest heartening, I hope you'll take this feedback constructively as many of us support NL because we trusted to go deeper where others don't point noted.

Abhinandan: So, uh, GA three, if, first of all, she said this dip is disheartening. You read this dip is heartening.

Manisha: Oh, I read. Oh, sorry.

Abhinandan: So ri uh, yeah, I, I don't know why to take any criticism. You see, I think was 2.5 minutes. I think you're talking about maybe the, 'cause we spent at least 40 minutes on the ion commission.

So I think it's spent at

Manisha: least two episodes on this. If I'm not, so it can't

Abhinandan: be 2.5 minutes. It may be 25 minutes, but I'm sure it was longer. Uh, but [00:20:00] that was the shorter hafta you talked about in the complete hafta. We've discussed it for almost an hour. I'm quite certain. Uh, but yeah, sorry. We will, we'll try and do better.

What, what more can we say using

Manisha: this? Also, the next episode was on Tu. Uh, but yes, get the, we accept the point on repetition and sounding similar. We'll work on that,

Anand: right?

Manisha: Okay. Mohit says Hai, for God's sake, don't go to Big Boss. You've built credibility over years and appearing there will only damage it at best.

0.001% of viewers might subscribe to News Laundry, but the bigger is 'cause that even loyal subscribers, um, may cancel after seeing you on that stage. News Laundry is always stood firm, black or white, never in a gray zone. Joining Big Boss would make it look like you're chasing cheap visibility, no different from ad driven revenue you've always rejected.

Just remember how Cyrus looked on the show. Dull, uninterested, and Diminished. Please don't risk the same. FYII didn't watch Big Boss. It's my wife who. Shared the Irus [00:21:00] feedback.

Abhinandan: Thank you Mohe for your feedback. Appreciate it. As you can see, uh, I did not say yes, uh, but actually one of the main reasons was just do four weeks.

In that place, I, I can't guarantee I'll always be on my best behavior, you know what I'm saying?

Manisha: Raman says, namesake of Raman, sir. And then you are thinking of stepping into big boss's house to reel in more subscribers for an bold move. But have you thought about the collateral damage? Okay, so he hasn't gone.

So all these letters we have already thought of the collateral damage. People like me who proudly avoid big bursts might start watching it 'cause you're there. Imagine that the show gains more followers thanks to you and society loses a few more pressures as to screaming matches internal health panel.

You might just end up doing more harm than good. Beware you may go down in history as the man who corrupted us all. I can already hear public TV screaming. NLCO triggers nations intellectual decline and if faith really wants to punish [00:22:00] you, so he'll say it'll be a housemate.

Abhinandan: Who knows

Manisha: this,

Raman : they'll bring him.

Hmm. Because they, I mean, they also do research now. So they will first listen to you whom all you call out get whom all you call out. So the moment rally you up and they'll immediately bring those people. And I would, that would be fun. We can,

Manisha: we, so Amia, this is an AI summary of your letter. Uh, let me begin by saying I strongly believe in the subscription model and deeply appreciate NLS nuanced positions.

That's why in my earlier letter I urged NL to reach every section of society, especially the underprivileged. I agree YouTube is widely accessible today, and NL Hindi can help reach villages and poorer audience. However, I slightly disagree with Manisha and Jesse's view that YouTube alone suffices. The reality is that algorithms may prevent NL from appearing in the feeds of those very sections.

Meanwhile, they remain exposed to divisive, hateful media narratives. I firmly believe NL has the potential to counter that, but relying only on YouTube or little media won't be enough to [00:23:00] broaden impact. I propose and I'll invest some resources and outreach targeted YouTube ads, newspaper spots, or even TV broadcasts.

That way NL can truly break echo chambers and reach where it matters most. But do ads, uh, influence anyone? I don't think having a newspaper spot or anything. Yeah, but

Abhinandan: all also also costs

Manisha: a lot also.

Abhinandan: Yeah. Also, um, tell me. Cost of newspaper ads and TV ads, and even, uh, YouTube ads for that matter. Matter is prohibitive.

It is, it takes so much money. The cost benefit analysis would not work out at, I feel, for news laundry.

Manisha: Hmm.

Abhinandan: Maybe

Manisha: radio spots are more

Abhinandan: No. Even, they're really expensive, by the way, and radio spots are so expensive, especially, and I'm blown away because they're city specific. I'm saying still they're so expensive.

Manisha: Hmm. Actually radio is the most heard, so it has to be, uh, Akha. Kare says, hi. NL team was watching the press conference and wondering if he avoided the report's question on what Congress intended to do next. [00:24:00] He seemed to, and I'm guessing you mean Raoul? No,

Abhinandan: I think the e

Manisha: This is the EC press conference. He seemed to say that they.

They're just putting the in information out there and are asking for digital data from the ec. Is it that there's nothing much one can actually do? Or just a general lack of action from Congress? For example, can they go to SC to instruct EC to give the data? Also, let's say EC provides the data and what Congress is saying turns out to be largely true.

Can you discuss for a couple of minutes what is the course of action that is actually possible? Can one go to the SE and expect a reelection in these constituencies? It's great to hear important issues being discussed without interruptions and always end up learning something. Listening to you guys has become a part of my Saturday smoking up routine.

Ah, mean

Abhinandan: the best Say no to drugs. Shut smoking up. I hope you mean nicotine. Nothing else. Yeah,

Manisha: I hope you mean nicotine,

Abhinandan: but, um,

Manisha: or hers like long. And

Raman : the best thing is they're easy. EC puts up all the [00:25:00] data on its website. The problem is accessing it how you are going to access it. Yeah. They make it so difficult to access.

I mean, say if there are 200 consequences and you want to know about the, the demography of those demography means the number of voters, women is so difficult. So they, I mean, whatever easy gives you the total numbers, you just buy it. But if you want to analyze that data, even we, we have to come up with so many codes just to, uh, decode the entire thing.

In fact, initially even the

Abhinandan: data that was available in a simpler form, they pull it up through PDF, so people cannot run Excel searches through it. Yes. So of course, I mean, I think it is the ECS role is. I don't think there is. That's a debate. The EC has not covered itself in broadly glory. It has made it more and more difficult.

In fact, something that was easily accessible. They reversed, they changed the system to make it more difficult. Um, that capture that you have to do, you have to put a new [00:26:00] capture for each excel, which actually you don't have to do that. You can just put one and they say, okay, you can download all the data, but no, uh, so of course they make environment difficult on your court question.

I will just direct you, and I'm sure Anand will have other illegal aspects to give the vote of the MRA assembly. The court had decided that actually it was in violation of whatever antide, defection law, but they could not go back in time and remove the chief minister. The Supreme Court said what happened was wrong, and I'm talking about shifts, uh, shifts in breaking and shinde voting with, um, the BJP.

But the Supreme Court said what happened was wrong, but it didn't do anything about it. So one is, can the, uh, Congress go to Supreme Court? Yes, they can. Can the Supreme Court order re-election? Yes, they can. In fact, re-elections have been ordered not by the Supreme Court or Election Commission. Also, in the past [00:27:00] there have been a few constituencies that has happened, but yes, Supreme Court can, no will.

There is the question I see.

Anand: The, uh, legal position is that, uh, for the elections that have been decided, the, uh, candidates declared winners. And so for a state legislature and parliament, you have to file an election petition within fif 45 days of the declaration of the results. And within 45 days you have to.

And that can be filed by an elector. That is a voter of that constituency or one of the candidates. So, uh, that is, uh, within, if you read representation of People's Act 1950 and 1951, along with their supplementary rule, electors rules, and a conduct of elections Rule 1961, that is how, uh, uh, elections are chan challenged and [00:28:00] reelection, uh, and first high court.

And if you are not a high court of the concerned a state in which constituent, in which that constituency is falling. If you are not satisfied, you can appeal to the Supreme Court. You cannot go with an election petition direct to Supreme Court.

Manisha: Next letter is by Modi g. Says Abby Mitro. And since you must discuss why Canada is recognizing Palestine statehood now and challenging my status of ish, you rightly call them the maple syrup country earlier now, you must say, where they're getting this extra two ab from my deafening silence and starving children, Gaza was such a master stroke.

Now why are these small countries not learning from me how to be aru? Although I feel like it's just optics. You'll recognize Palestine. I mean, it's just very little that they're doing in the face of everything that's happening there.

Raman : Did someone sail to, uh, Gaza?

Abhinandan: Oh, they were. So, I, I, yeah. So the Flotilla, I think the Flotilla is [00:29:00] supposed to leave this week.

Manisha: Yeah. I dunno

Abhinandan: if it's there. They were

Manisha: stopped earlier now again.

Abhinandan: Yeah. Earlier. Yeah. Greta Hun. Yeah. The Flotilla is gonna be leaving and now they, I think have a lot more backing from. I'm not sure which world leader, but at least one world leader has said good luck to her on this Flotilla. I'm not, I I will not say it's just optics.

I think it matters, even if it is optics. Optics also matters, I think increasingly with also a report by those, uh, scholars of genocide. Hmm. Uh, coming up with consensus that what Gaza, what is happening Gaza is genocide. I think slowly the consensus is pretty solidly building against Israel. And like I've said earlier, the only thing keeping Netanyahu safe is Trump.

That is the single factor one person. Otherwise, I think, and slowly, slowly, because of recognizing Palestine saying yes, it's, even if it's Mayor optics, little by little, I'm [00:30:00] pretty certain, like I said, in our lifetime, we will see. Whatever Goodwill Israel had her earned in the last 60, 70 years, vanishing and the current prime Minister will go down the way of other workroom.

I believe. One

Manisha: interesting thing was the union minister. One, uh, interesting thing was the union, uh, external ministry, uh, issuing a statement against the death of the killing of the journalists.

Raman : Yeah.

Manisha: Said that was regrettable and that was quite shocking. And that Israel is probing into the,

Raman : even India with Russia and China have now criticized Israel that has come out in the papers today.

Hmm.

Manisha: Says hello, this isn't really a alto. Just a quick follow up on my earlier email to secretary@gmail.com,

Abhinandan: so I will take this from you. Thanks Manisha. So Mara, I did see your email and I have it open in front of me. Just for those, you know, Mara has come with some ideas that rather than. The feedback being only through [00:31:00] emails, there can be a more robust mechanism.

So, um, Mara, I cannot answer you in detail through an email 'cause it'll take me maybe eight, 10 minutes explaining all this, but some of your ideas, I mean the, the great ideas, a, there's a cost element to some of them. When you say that the physical, you know, engagement, each time we have a physical meet, even it's a small one.

Oh, speaking of each, by the way, the media humble is in Bangalore, the third and 4th of October. Here are all the speakers who will be there.

Go to the media ramble.com and register. Bangalore International Center is not as big as India Habitat Center. The full capacity of that is about 2 50, 300 people. So usually, um, media ramble. We do allow some. Non-subscribers to come. I don't think we'll accommodate non-subscribers. So you'll have to be a subscriber to attend.

You can meet Manisha there, [00:32:00] Raman, me, Nia Nee Parvati, uh, who else will be there? She know Sanja, um, Josie, Joseph Akash.

Manisha: Banerjee,

Abhinandan: Akash, Banerjee. There'll be a bunch of journalists from across the country. Uh, so do come. So, yeah. So, but even when I do very small events, man end, like at the IIC C we did one a couple of years ago, maybe more even that event cost about 35,000 rupees, even if it's really small.

So a the physical aspect that you're talking about, the cost is very high for us to do it as regularly. I understand it is more substantial, but the amount of emails we can take, uh, and the amount of things we can address. By this mechanism. I mean, it comes to your postcard mechanism. I think that's a good idea.

Uh, we will be putting it up in the next strategy session that we have. Uh, but on the physical thing that you said, um, actual face-to-face is, is a hard [00:33:00] one.

Manisha: Next email is from Sachin High NL team. I have one correction for you, Manisha. In the latest nuisance episode you mentioned that amateur said something about Sadar Patel in 1960, even though Patel had passed away in 1950 and you mocked his claim of being a history student.

But in reality, he was referring to something from 1960, then briefly responded to someone from the opposition and continued his speech afterwards. It's quite evident from the video that he paused mid-sentence to reply and then resumed his original point. The point is there are already many valid ways to mock or question the government.

We don't need to manufacture things. Maybe the research team just missed it. Thank you so much for this. I shall look into it and we shall correct it if we haven't indeed made this mistake. Hmm. Puja Aurora says. This is an AI summary puja of your email. Hi. I wanna appreciate the work each of you does to bring us honest news, which is rare these days.

On the subject of the high handedness of the Modi Yogi Sarkar, I wish to share a personal experience what some may dismiss as a rich person's problem, but it reflects a deeper issue. My father and [00:34:00] 86-year-old army officer was physically assaulted by someone We shall not, because we cannot verify this.

We will not name the organization, but he was assaulted. The matter was escalated, and the membership of your father was suspended without due process. And all this falls under the UP Chief secretary and the authority, the. No authority there. Despite approaching both, no action was taken. And the, as you say, that the secretaries personally collected two people higher up in the up government.

Instead, we were pressured to withdraw complaints in exchange for reinstatement the lesson. There's no real readdress for anyone if even a war veteran can be beaten and intimidated with impunity. What chance does the common citizen have?

Abhinandan: Puja? I have absolutely no disagreement with your male. I have been saying this for a long time.

I think there is, of course there is always that, that, oh, it was always like this, of course to an extent is always [00:35:00] like this, but I think the impunity with which you can get away with stuff today, uh, because one thing social media has done is, you know, social convention has been broken, for example. You wouldn't assault a 4G earlier.

I mean, I've traveled all my childhood by train. If someone was in uniform, they were given a certain respect in train Spain. Yes it was. And I remember all the time, 'cause my dad was a 4G and I used to get very excited when I used to see. So those social conventions have gone and in and I think, and I will solely from a nationwide angle, I'm sure in different states, different things happen.

I'm sure in Hana, you know, Tara's family ruled the roost at certain times. Maybe in parts of Bihar LA's family did. But if, if you talk about nationwide, because of how social media spread stuff, only if you are willing to fight physically, make someone uncomfortable, will you be taken seriously at any level, anywhere [00:36:00] in this country.

And that is purely a. Dan of Modi and his BS because of the, uh, beating up videos that went viral in his first four, five years. Then the go Sha who went viral in the next four, five years, then our wonderful went viral in the next four, five years. If you can gather enough people to start beating people up, do you have a chance of actually fighting back?

And I think you're absolutely correct. That is the reality of today's India, no matter what we claim otherwise.

Manisha: There was this video for BSF Javan? No, I think Station who was beaten up by

Abhinandan: dude, the one in the, um, where was that? Uh, I think it was somewhere in Bengal. They beat up on Javan and the guy went back.

He came back with three, three tons full of his,

Raman : ah,

Abhinandan: four Gs. And then they started slapping the cop around in the police station.

Manisha: The banker says hello. Since you spoke about Gaza and the starvation and the decadence, there's a need to support, I enclose for you a report. [00:37:00] So this is an. Organizer report.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Manisha: Okay. I hope this is sent. It says, how are

Abhinandan: the BBC and New York Times Feeding the world? How much is propaganda one lie at a time. That is what the organizers, the Beast, is

Manisha: dedicated to debunking the Gaza salvation. This is what it has to say. The organizers ies. I mean, it's just crazy that there's not even any, I don't even understand the incentive for someone in India to do that.

It's not a reflection on anything that we are doing. Just we can be honest about what's happening there.

Abhinandan: Well, I'm a little surprised at the organizer, you know, because I don't have expect much from the Sages and the Op Indias, but the organizer is the mouthpiece of, like it or not. It is a significant and an important, you know, organization.

The RSS.

Hmm.

The kind of nonsense it publishes, it needs Hef to they, I'm sure they can get one decent editor to get up. I mean. Some of the other pieces [00:38:00] they've published in the past is like, dude, I mean, you're not an open India or something, man. You're like,

Manisha: yeah, you need organizer to present your view.

Abhinandan: Or at least as Asif factual, I've just blown over you.

Raman : Were always like that. When I remember when I was a Cub Reporter, 88, 89, and I did a story on the base, you know, one times of India editor, he said something on the stage.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Raman : So about, uh, you know, uh,

Abhinandan: t

Raman : that time I think this, uh, issue was hotting up.

You know, this ri wasted, it was 89. 89 90, uh, then they came up with the, the Times of India editor issues, fat. Again, RA, I still remember the headline because it was, the entire report was based on my story. Mm. Which I, I simply, whatever he said on the state, I reported so, so this and, [00:39:00] and Thet OI editor, he had come to my organization and he requested,

you know, this is what had happened. But this, they were always like that. Always. Mm.

Manisha: Says again. That's an AI summary. Dear NL team, the Wall Street Journal report on the. Air India 1 7 1. Crash wasn't wrong. Preliminary findings already point to the cause. The fuel control switches were manually moved from run to cutoff within seconds.

These aren't simple toggles. They require a deliberate pull and hold action like a shower. Diverter. The FO noticed flipped them back and one engine recovered. Yes, fuel can be cut electrically, but that doesn't move. The switches. The report states that physically transitioned from run to cutoff. They physically transition from run to cutoff in the Osaka 7, 8, 7 case.

A glitch cut fuel flow, but the switches never moved. Making this case fundamentally different. Crash probes are often misunderstood. Preliminary [00:40:00] reports usually identify the technical cause. What takes longer is piecing together the full sequence CRM factors and systemic or legal implications, which can take a year or more.

PSC, page 14 of the preliminary report pdf. We didn't say though that it's wrong, uh, but uh, there was some bits in the report which said that. There's a mention of silence or you know, there's a mention of one of the pilots. I think the criticism was that they were very

Abhinandan: conveniently leaked without a signature.

Yeah. Which is to take the heat off the, uh, the manufacturer, the aircraft manufacturer. I think Haga what you're saying is actually many, uh, of the people, the commentators had said that the action is you gotta pull and switch off. It cannot be, I mean, it has to be a deliberate action. And that was, I think that point was made by, uh, several commentators.

Yeah. The doubt was, some said that, but there is no certainty that it cannot happen because of some mechanical error either, which one doesn't know. But I think to your larger point, where is the [00:41:00] story now? We don't know what happened.

Manisha: It'll take time.

Abhinandan: I know, but what I'm saying is there was so much of noise in 24 hours.

Someone wanted answers. When will answers come and have, sure. I think there is enough time. We still don't know whether it was human error, whether it was mechanical error, what was a mechanical error? Mm. You know, it

Manisha: was the only thing I felt was it the WSU or another one of these publications where it said that he appeared calm.

So I don't know, like in three seconds, how are you gauging calmness of the pilot problem?

Raman : That that's one thing I felt whatever prelim report that came, or most newspapers, they tried to make some assumptions. Ah, I mean, if this guy said this at 8 27, the other guy said at 8 28 this, so this one second or two second.

He was very calm, as you said. I mean, so those kind of, so those things, I dunno how they know something more than what they're putting, I'm trying, I'm trying to say that it was more, uh, of a human error than technical is something that they [00:42:00] were suggesting, which was wrong.

Abhinandan: Also, I think it became, at least from the Indian journalist point of view, I noticed that a lot, it became a thing of patriotism.

Manisha: Yeah. Like

Abhinandan: Indian pilots versus foreign conspiracy.

Manisha: And so,

Abhinandan: I mean, it just became a thing of, oh, third world pilots are like this. But first all like, it just became so, you know, just noisy and angry and all about patriotism, the whole story and where has it gone? Nothing. Where is all that patriotism gone?

Which I think patriotism, I have said is a primitive emotion, especially while reporting. Please put it aside. It has no, it has no place in reporting. We have all these, our channel is nation first. Our channel is nationalist first. Then you should not have a news channel

Manisha: and such a tragedy. I think we can do without this.

Says Hi, NL team. I saw the CNN picture report on Gaza recommended by, and it was horrible. It's an irony and so sad to see that. Powerful states, governments, and people can do [00:43:00] this to human beings. It makes me feel so guilty, helpless, and powerless. I support NL via ish Kumar channel, et cetera. Many other independent voices, but still, there's nothing which can we, which we canan pathetic

Anand: Indian public space.

Mm. So in us in, uh, so, uh, in last 20, 25 years

in like, say, like in, uh, university space earlier now, this kind of say confrontations conflicts or threats did happened. So. What, uh, there were groups who used to mobilize opinion of student bodies or students. Mm. Now also it's happening, but apart from, I would not make it political, but, uh, the, uh, psyche of Young is, and it is not without reason.

They're very cynical about the speakers who speak about these [00:44:00] international issues in campus. Cynical in the sense key and the people who are speaking, they have an easy and comfortable life and they have money, they have resources and, uh, they will speak here, get an speaking, uh, engagement in Boston tomorrow.

They will speak there. And you are here. So concentrate on things on which you have some agency. Hmm. Like your career, immediate exams and this, uh, not, uh, on something that you don't have any agency like Gaza, Palestine. These people have their life set.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Anand: They will speak here also. You speak in Boston also.

And they will have, so this cynicism is more than what I saw in university, in university 20, 25 years ago. Uh, uh, and, uh, the youth mindset means, uh, earlier, [00:45:00] I think, uh, even if, uh, students were from poor background, very humble background, they didn't. They think like that in, in, in large numbers, but now they think like that in very large numbers.

Maybe because they have been exposed to this kind of, uh, say fraudulent in intellectuals, uh, more, uh, on social media or something. Or they see people, uh, means having comfortable life and this and whatever. Also the materialistic onset in, uh, is far more forceful now.

Abhinandan: Also, I think, um, there is a, well, there is a pressure and sometimes it's gonna come to the pressure of taking positions.

I think it's an outcome of social media, like we've discussed on Hafta several times before that when we were young. I mean, we were young. I guess we different generations. I did not have a position on so many things.

Manisha: Yeah.

Abhinandan: You know, I did not have [00:46:00] any articulated position on reservation. By the time I started articulating.

I was just like. You know, mirroring what others were saying. I had not, but otherwise, also, there was no pressure to articulate what do you think of Gaza or Israel? He was, you don't have any position and if you didn't, if you weren't interested, you did not. Like, let's take 1992 Ri I was in Delhi University.

Many of us had no view because we had not read enough. We, it was just some, but today I don't think there'll be any student who will not have a view, whether it's thought through or not. The push to have a position is a outcome I think, of social media. And that has, I think, added to the cynicism that an Anand is talking about.

Anand: No, I think there, uh, my experience is different and you were wrong there. I think what is public, what is public is fair means what are the questions, uh, that constitute public sphere? Many people, like in [00:47:00] surroundings, that I move, like my family, nowhere. I think anyone discussing anything that we talk about.

So, uh, they're not political. They don't. Uh, talk about anything that we discuss here. Uh, and also, uh, where when I teach, uh, students don't talk about public, public things. In fact, uh, what would be the biggest public thing in a country's life world by India, Pakistan? And when I was traveling through Metro in those days means nobody, um, people were singing Instagram of song and dance.

No. Was so I think what it constitutes public now for some work. I move, I moved it in 23 districts of Bihar in last three, four months. So I don't come across a lot of interest in the public issues and political issues. What constitutes political, what [00:48:00] constitutes public? I am, uh, I have a different. Take on that now.

Abhinandan: Yeah, but I mean, actually I thought you were gonna gimme some data with the certainty with which said, I think you're wrong. I think there is. It's not a mathematical truism, so I don't think anyone's right or wrong on this. I just think that when I was in college, you'd be hard pressed to fill a 50 seater hall with a speaker on anything.

Whereas on reservation Zimbabwe

today, you'll have bloody crowds there. They'll be stoning, cannot speak this person cannot inaugurate this in college. And I'm telling you, I used to be in college all the time with the nerdy gang, with the Luka gang people all the time coming and begging guys, the speaker is here, please. There are not even 10 people in the hall.

Nobody attended any talk. So all these political theories of whether they're talking about this conflict, that conflict, that was not something that was. People were interested into the level to have a [00:49:00] position on and on that today I have been to college. Who the fuck am I am? No one even. I already fill in a hall and Betty Stevens there when I went.

You think in 19 91, 19 88, I mean CEO of some to Chinese organization goes to college. You think 10 people also come and listen?

Manisha: I think they would be. I mean, there would always people, I was in college. I was in college. No used to come. I

Anand: guarantee grandpa was nobody would come to listen to anybody. That is a function of communication Technology.

Setting up communities is easier now. Yeah, that's what I, social media than that. But there has been, uh, equally another powerful development of diffusion of interest and diffusion of interest in lot of things. Uh, uh. I, I like say, Dr. Manmohan sing after being Finance Minister of India. He came to economic society meeting in Hindu College and only nine or 11 people were there and then the principal went to whole [00:50:00] campus like it was.

It is a disrespect to the former finance minister. And, uh, uh, one of the panelists was suggesting that, uh, he was a Wising Pro professor, a witin. He, he was suggesting that, uh, in future, if Mr. Singh becomes Prime Minister, and I was thinking, will he ever become Prime Minister? And he actually became so, so, uh, so and only nine to 11 people, uh, were there.

I came there and he was offered, I remember a glass of Pepsi and he readily accepted it. And someone quip that because you is pro No, it's prom and CC

Manisha: Sur

Abhinandan: in a full Hindi email on Hafta. Even though we get so much of, you know, [00:51:00] this southern audience that you have a Hindi podcast. Please speak Hindi on that 'cause they don't understand any, but we shall read it 'cause he's written

Manisha: 20% ethanol, 80%

sir.

Is it really even, I was wondering is it good, bad, like, because that's all you are getting now.

Abhinandan: I don't think

Manisha: you're getting,

Abhinandan: so I dunno. Maybe this is something that, uh, uh, I dunno if other auto related channels have done a detailed, uh, discussion on E 20, the pros and cons, because there are so many[00:52:00]

Manisha: hundred percent tax,

we are not getting any benefit from this.

This is a very important point. It should be cheaper for us now. No,

Abhinandan: actually we should have an explainer on this. A good point. Like ethanol, what is the, Hmm. Okay.

Manisha: That's my only gro, so otherwise, I don't know if it's good, bad, but people say impact that I'm not really sure. Anonymous says last week part of Delhi NCR was flooded because it rained.

The flooding was so worse. It's still going on by the way that I and many other people traverse through three, four feet of water that entered our cars and somehow made our way home. No surprises for guessing that many had to send their cars to workshops to get them sorted, but there are always positives.

Within three months, the toxic air would be the flavor of the month. If only the moguls and haru had not existed, everything would've been great. My recommendation, watch the Julee video of Mehi Hassan debating 20 far right people. Yeah. This, [00:53:00] I haven't seen it yet, but a lot of people talk about I've, I,

Abhinandan: I just want to have the panels view on it.

'cause Jubilee got a lot of criticism on that. Uh, I mean you can watch it, but I'll just tell you some of the views, you know, you can have views that are opposed to Medi Hasan and you can be right of center, left of Center pro-ISIS, Israel and Israel, et cetera. But some of those guys outright was saying that Nazis were right.

You know, like they were saying stuff that is settled. It is, no one would articulate that,

Manisha: but Maria son was engaging with that end countering it.

Abhinandan: So yeah, the point is that Jubilee is platforming people who don't belong in a serious debate. Like, I don't think a debate is if someone sits here and now let's discuss, uh, why, why should we be stopped from, you know, um, not educating girls.

Only boys should be educated families. Girls should be given a hundred calories, boys. But that is like, what the fuck kind of debate is that? Hmm. You know, your just sensation. So there were some debaters in the Jubilee that were of that caliber. [00:54:00] And Mandy was engaging with them, which hats off to him. I think he's very talented.

But is that really? But

Manisha: then he's a, a

Abhinandan: debate.

Manisha: Yeah. Even I don't, and it's not be of equals No. These are just like young people from what I gather.

Abhinandan: Yeah. They don't be

Manisha: either the man debate someone hi of his statue, but on issues. Exactly.

Abhinandan: Why would you platform that? So I'm not a big fan of this jubilees. Um, I mean it looks very good and it's.

Very watchable s snackable content, but I think it really diminishes the conversation. Yeah.

Manisha: Also, it convinces no one Yeah. People who are gonna come with those views. It is just to show that you have outsmarted them in a debate and look, you had them, you know, it's that like Gotcha. Like I made them look like idiots kind of a thing.

But at whoever's watching it isn't really getting convinced, I don't think even debate, which means that Okay, two equals can kind of give you pros and cons of an issue. Mm-hmm. Where there's some kind of reflection, which I think someone like a Mary should do, like I think his statues that [00:55:00] not taking on trolls or whatever, these are trollish kind of comments, right?

Yeah. But that Nazi are great or whatever. Yeah. What

Abhinandan: exactly what, what is the point of, this is my question. Jubilee is just, you know, it's a big boss type thing.

Manisha: Yeah. Like often on the campaign trail, we meet a lot of people who say very outrageous things like, or very bigoted things. We always cut them out.

There's no point like airing them or No, you

Abhinandan: can have, can't debate if a person in authority has those views. Ah, that's a different thing. You know, if someone, I'm saying

Manisha: rally goers,

Abhinandan: just, yeah. But if it's just some random person that, you know, if an MP or an MLA has such views, you know, course, then yeah.

Then you have to discussing. In fact, you have to then, I think show them up for it.

Manisha: Or a spokesperson. Anyone who's been given some anonymous says, hi, team. Thanks as always for amazing work. Curious to know how you fight a sense of hopelessness when thinking of this country and its state. I have no hope left that things will get better for us in this lifetime.

Curious to know what keeps you guys going when faced with the truth of how cruel this country is for most who inhabit it. [00:56:00]

Abhinandan: So how do you fight hopelessness? We'll go around. Let's start with you.

Manisha: Uh,

Raman : stay hopeful.

Manisha: That's it. Okay. Simple.

Anand: Stay open. That's simple. I, I have just related to the other thing that I said earlier, most people, uh, go about their private lives.

Hmm. Uh, uh, I also think that what uh means, uh, public spirited people or people in public sphere might have a different view of the country, politics, society. But most people live their private lives, personal lives. They have a lot of, uh, struggles. Despite this ma um, irrespective of which government is there, they will go about their lives.

Um, I also count among me, myself among them that I think most of us live personal, private lives. So our hopelessness and hope is about our personal and personal, uh, [00:57:00] private lives. Foremost. Uh, I'm not saying all, there are people who are more concerned with the public sphere. That is how. It has been for centuries.

I think

Abhinandan: Manisha, you have any?

Manisha: I'm not, I don't feel hopeless, uh, about the politics and all. I don't, I mean, that's just, I feel, I think everything's a continuation and no matter how specific special these times feel, there's always something that you can dip into in the past to say that it's happened before in different ways and people have come out of it.

So I don't, politics doesn't depress me, but what increasingly I feel very hopeless about is, uh, state of our cities, infrastructure, sanitation, this monsoon flooding, when you see, I mean, that's the kind of thing I feel really like, will it ever improve? Now we are gonna have another, you know, that other letter that said that pollution is gonna come another season.

Are we gonna now again, take that toxic 900 a QI and we're just [00:58:00] gonna, again, sit in our rooms, lock ourselves up. So that is something that is making me increasingly hopeless and I don't see genuinely any. Conversation. There is a lot of conversation in the public sphere about it. I feel that, uh, more than ever now Indians are really talking about, in fact, that is something I think that cuts across.

You could be supporting anyone. You could be political, apolitical, whatever, but the state of cities, really, everyone's talking about it. But in terms of politics, there's nothing, you don't hear of any solution. You don't hear of any will. Instead you just have pol like the last thing we heard was the Delhi CM saying it was just the Rainier.

That's it. And again, we've had studies say that we are losing eight years of our lives living in Delhi. So that really makes me feel like, is it worth it? So

Abhinandan: I have a. Rather, some people may find this controversial take on this whole hopelessness versus hopeful thing. I honestly [00:59:00] believe, and like anything to do with human nature, this is not a mathematical truism.

I think that is a rider that must be put on anything that has to do with behavior. But I don't know if there's any psychological expert, psychology expert, or psychiatrist watching this.

Hmm.

I think generally optimism and pessimism has nothing to do with the environment around you. Okay.

Manisha: Let's do something in in you.

Abhinandan: Not nothing. It's less to do with. It has to do with you as a person, which I think is determined fundamentally by your formative years, you know, let's say four to four to 14. I think if at that stage there was certain security around you, you'll generally. I think the optimistic if at that stage there was some trauma, you will generally be anxious.

I think it has a lot to do with that and has less to do [01:00:00] with how bad things are around. So my pop psychology for the, for the day, uh, no, I think

Manisha: environment, no, I mean I, yeah, I don't think so.

Abhinandan: I mean, we all live in the same environment. Some people are super hopeful, some people are not. I think it just has to do with how secure you fundamentally are, which you carry that legacy is carried from your formative years.

Raman : And there is some mathematical truth in the fact that if things decay, they also develop.

Abhinandan: Mm. So

Raman : if, if something which has touched the lowest AB, I think will rise again. So, so, so that is the hopefulness.

Abhinandan: Like for example, this whole, um, you know, I was watching, um. It's, I think it was on the science website or it was one of the scientific things.

Only they've come up with a mechanism to clean the oceans. Hmm. These automated, you know, renewable powered, you [01:01:00] know, machine type of things, which can collect plastics, which can do this. They have come up with the, I think it's an artificially created bacteria that can actually decompose plastic. These things also happening and once they cross a critical mass and they start happening at scale, I think future generation will be able to clean up the planet.

I. I'm, I I'm not re it's going,

Manisha: I, India can just clean up with cities here. I don't care about the planet because basic cities are there.

Abhinandan: What you have a view on the, about technology. Technology is generally hopeful, less hopeful. Will things get better, not get better? Are you

Anand: No, I, I think I made my comment.

I think people are concerned with their personal and private lives, you know,

Manisha: but yeah, news doesn't, like, people often feel they're in the business of news. How can, don't you feel depressed? That doesn't, uh, stories that do. Again, I think that's got to do with the, the times that I remember being very, very impacted and sad was, I think the last time it was the money poor video when it came out.

So I think crimes against women sometimes when they're. [01:02:00] Really the most heinous of crimes. Those purely, maybe because I'm woman and so I relate to it more. But last time I remember being very depressed about it was, was the money per case, the videos that came out, even Air India crashed to some amount, left you quite heavy for two days just knowing that this had happened.

Yeah.

Abhinandan: But

Manisha: other than that, daily news, reading about crimes and the state of politics and the hate doesn't, I mean, it doesn't shake me fundamentally. Um, Michael Schumacher says, hi, um, AI summary maybe worth discussing. Does the left have a messaging problem? I was watching a podcast where a panelist argued that left cleaning policies often assume people already recognize they should.

The address, for example, affirmative actions. Importance is still debated in the west. Similarly, India, most of the general category don't face cast discrimination daily. So they resist when they hear reservation. Aldi's use of term like wealth tax or redistribution, also triggered pushback. Contrast this with Zoran Ani who campaigned on affordability, [01:03:00] a term that resonates instantly and helped him build momentum.

The right meanwhile often simplifies messaging by framing issues around a clear villain, which makes it more digestible for the average voter. So the question is, does the left fail not on ideas, but on how it frames them? Is the real challenge only of communication rather than conviction?

Raman : Rahul, first of all, is not left.

Abhinandan: Yeah. Also, I think my job left and right categorization is not something I'm completely on the same page with. I think the left. Very often has a single villain like the rich man, the capitalist, the factory owner,

the owner,

McDonald's. So it does that. So it depends on, I think you're talking more in the current context, the liberal versus conservative political spectrum.

'cause uh, the left is as guilty of having single point villains as the writers. But I mean, I think what you have said, um, I have heard this said [01:04:00] several years ago by Bil Ma in the American context, he says it has a messaging problem. For example, they will call it pro-life, you know, anti-abortion. They'll not say anti-abortion.

They'll say pro-life, the whole gun thing, the whatever is the word that the Democrats pick is always a negative word. And the word that the Republicans pick for. Something that is actually a no brainer is always a positive word. He had given four or five examples. I forget the ones where I remember the pro-life on guns also.

He had, uh, given certain. So I think messaging is something, but I don't think it's like, uh, the left has a messaging problem that the on the right is very good at it. I think that just, it's cyclical. Yeah. Right now is the, is is the time for, but I think a very good commentary on this, not necessarily messaging, uh, is, uh, and I'll, I'm interviewing Manu Joseph tomorrow.

He says left. Has a certain unity [01:05:00] the world over because they rally around certain specific universal values or whatever it is. Whereas the right can never have a universal union.

Manisha: I mean right now is the best example of the right in the us, the right in India. But there's no which

Abhinandan: where they thought they were best buddies for a while and now that they're going at each other on Twitter and trolls with Trump people, and I think Manu has articulated that, that there is this shared kind of ideological thing that the liberals have the world over, which actually make them natural allies.

The right has a bigger problem because they will always have to fight each other eventually. 'cause it is more. Geography specific. I think that's very true.

Anand: I think in from 19th century Edmund books, that conservatism is always local. Mm. Because it comes from way of life, and that's why you need not have, uh, need not have, uh, fighters for conservatism because it will always emanate from the way of life of people.

[01:06:00] So you, you need not very devoted, uh, people for that. So, uh, uh, so, uh, I think, uh, this stream of thought that conservatism is local, right? Of center thinking is local. Local, because it comes from way of life and, uh. The distinctions, uh, with, uh, uh, say come with distance, so geographical distance. So, uh, I think, uh, I, uh, he has, I think developed, he, he said the le left is global, so it has a global solidarity platforms.

So, and the right wing has to be local. Mm. It means, uh, I think in, and the Indian has

Abhinandan: to be vocal for local. No, but you know, the specific example is given, which is actually very true, uh, Manu is given, is that, you know, I oppose, you know, pollution and I'm oppose climate change, right? Mm-hmm. [01:07:00] I oppose the way minorities are being treated or the way immigrants are being treated and X, y, Z, but I may not react, even liberal will not react the same way if that immigrant posts.

There outside your house, and that is very true. I think your approach to things change when it hits you right there. Mm-hmm. People who are extremely liberal minded, who I have spoken to, their position changed significantly. If in New York when there was a sudden influx of people there, Hmm. Some people I know who are friends in France, they're like, dude, Paris is unworkable.

Now the kind of in the streets, it's just unsafe because you see when it starts hitting you, people change a little bit. Whereas as far as the value is concerned, don't be racist, don't be agitated. You can still kind of subscribe to their value.

Manisha: Soya says, hi NL team. I wanted to know the entire panel's view on the election system that we have in our country.

ECI is a constitutional body, which I believe should be [01:08:00] independent from the executive, but while preparing electoral roles in conducting elections, it takes the help of the executive branch such as the DEO district, magistrate, ER Os, b, DO, and BLO. All of these are government officials who can be in some way or the other, pressurized by the ruling dispensation.

How far does our system ensure that elections are free and fair? Shouldn't the ECI be given sufficient manpower and money to conduct elections throughout the country on its own without using the help of the executive? Why didn't our framers of the constitution make such provisions and blindly believes that the executive will help a free and fair election?

Maybe I have that discussion with an expert will get clarity on

Abhinandan: this. Samya, I've actually had a few, uh, let's talk about with former election commissioner, um, Dr. Koi. I mean, I think that wherever there are human beings involved, like even in America, the whole electoral system. What's happening with the fedia in the US with Trump firing that one, the first black lady [01:09:00] who was on the treasury, in the Treasury.

Right. Uh, and he's trying to load it with his sen, where the ings, all that danger is there. But by and large, I think we have pretty robust system. Yeah. And on top of you having a full-time people on this election commission employees to conduct an election, I mean, can you imagine those people will be sitting for like five years and then they'll work for 10, 15 days?

I mean, I think generally the system is fine. It's just that. You know, it goes through absent drafts.

Anand: See, the main person in a district is district magistrate means so. Uh, so, uh, they come from all India service offic. Um, and during the conduct of election, they are under the supervision of Election Commission.

And that is, uh, a kind of check and balance there.

Manisha: The waterless revision by the Election Commission is an illicit project with the legal er. I dunno if we can say [01:10:00] that. If the EC series who says they are, they should be attempting the definitive and comprehensive revision after the 2026 national census.

It would, it could even be clubbed with the census if they want to save government resources. That's, uh, yeah, that a lot of people have argued. I share Beenan skepticism about AHA as I too resisted its use for the longest time and was forced into submission. History shows that the art of rigging an election in many fledgling democracies has now moved from the goons and the Bos to the books and their cooks.

To borrow a phrase from climate science, Indian electro has entered a new equilibrium. If the current regime lives up towards its reputation of being even more efficient at being ruthless than their predecessors ever, we will be in the new equilibrium, at least until the March waited call. I don't think, I mean there are lots of issues with election commission, but I think elections by and large should just say that we are an electro.

Abhinandan: What does that even mean? I think she's trying

Manisha: to say that we are just an autocracy with elections. That's what, uh,

Abhinandan: well, I mean, there are certain, I think there's certain, I mean,

Manisha: [01:11:00] suppression is a huge issue across states. Um, and there have been lots of reporting on it also. But I don't think we can say all of elections are rigged.

There are no real elections happening in India. Of course, ecs, uh, ECS role is, has been very questionable. Of course. Yeah. And it's, uh, unwilling to willingness to act on the current party. And

Abhinandan: again, we don't need us to say it. I mean, Ashu KVA has written a piece on it, Dr. Ish. I mean, there have been at least four former election commissioners who have articulated their views of how terrible this election commission is.

In just conducting the basic functions. So, but to say that the system is completely rotten is not something I'd agree with. Because even if you see around us, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, um, you know, Burma, I mean, we are democracy that has survived. Yes. Yeah. We are doing something right, I'm sure.

Manisha: And [01:12:00] the SIRI think now there's enough that's come out. It's a completely useless exercise that did, nothing has changed on the rules.

Abhinandan: Yeah. In the whole, the debate. But look

Manisha: at the pushback. It got so much report. I mean, that wouldn't happen in a democracy. Look at the number of people who've come out and like, it won't happen in

Abhinandan: democracy.

Manisha: That will not happen in an autocracy.

Abhinandan: Okay.

Anand: No. How I also, I think we will run, I would not say that it's a useless exercise. Mm-hmm. Uh. Uh, and also, uh, but we can have a different, what is

Manisha: set out to do a din do that is very clear. Not,

Anand: uh, there are two things. First, is that on a WhatsApp group, you say that, uh, um, examination results, uh, have not come out with correct marks given.

So I see in a WhatsApp group, I am just giving an analogy. Which, uh, is just possible that, uh, [01:13:00] there have been errors. Uh, and it's a very small exercise. Election, election electoral exercise done by election commission is a very huge exercise, very huge logistical exercise. But, but then I see many saying that, oh, you know, the examination branch does this to get examination fee, and it does not evaluate, uh, answer seats and gives aary marks now coming to, uh, the lapse in.

Uh, say evaluation of certain answer seats is correct, but assigning this motive that this is for, this for examination fee or this motive, this cons. Now these cons, conspiratorial aspects I don't agree with as IR far more complex as IR uh, in fact, the need for SIRI have repeated that 2019 I had written why SIR is [01:14:00] needed in certain states and even the political parties themselves.

Uh, many district magistrates who are now district magistrates in Bihar state that these political parties came up with their representation to my office and said that we need revision and also we need revision

Manisha: for sure that is. And,

Anand: and, uh, and not only for that, they gave representation. To election commission.

So, uh, so it's, uh, there are other aspects also, some of which I would not like to reveal, but things are more complex. Uh, you know, so, uh, when I, uh, see media commentary media was, uh, like the legal constitutional aspects from the day one, they were wrong on many aspects. And Supreme Court has pointed out in their affidavit, ec has pointed out now, uh, the exercise in its, uh, um, say [01:15:00] performance of manpower be, uh, has of course many lapses, which has come out, but.

Uh, I read somewhere I, which I now use, uh, to see things that fenced in setting of a TV comedy show. Now fenced in, uh, fenced in setting of a TV comedy show, uh, has certain rules because it, uh, leaves out the mess and complexity. Uh, uh. Outside it so it can work within a fenced in setting. So a lot of media reporting and commentary has been fenced in setting, uh, be because the complexity and mess around is of a very different kind.

So if you says commission, a series of reports, uh, like some newspapers did, uh, it'll only reinforce the line that the paper initially took, that these are the lapses, but [01:16:00] it'll not cover that anything that diverges from that line. So, and that, that, that became very apparent to me when I read some national newspapers in Bihar.

Uh. Because they just followed, they had to do a series of reports. They are now reinforcing the first line. That is also, I am not saying that's false, but there are a lot of other things also there. There are a lot of other things that need to be taken into account.

Manisha: I think, yes, I had a clear rule when all political parties supported it, that the voter rules need to be revised.

There's duplications. It needs to be cleaner, and no one is arguing that that shouldn't have been done. But now it's clear that they weren't able to do it in the last time that they chose for themselves two months. Express report pretty clearly says that previous have taken eight months. This is an exercise that should have taken eight to one year at least.

So you are back to the bad rules. Leave aside ascribing motive to it, or I'm not even getting into and all that. That's completely different. Why? But the purpose of SIR has not been

Raman : why it is [01:17:00] not intensive. Uh, because, you know, the election commission officials, they themselves have admitted that they could not change the cer certain animal, which were, which have been existing for the past 20 years.

Yeah. Our report has mentioned that very clearly. Like in one house, number three, you have 1100 daughters. Now, this house number three in that particular constituency, uh, polling, both is continuing. For the past 28, they said they had given, they had, uh, in, uh, during the sense last census, they had given the numbers to each house that you please put up those numbers.

So they did not put up those numbers. So house number three is continuing since then. So, so, so this anomaly. Hmm. Still exists, which was the stated goal. We cannot say that these 1100 guys, they may exist or they may not. So, I mean, it's very easy to manipulate also, you know, so, so because we physically, it is not [01:18:00] possible for us, uh, you know, the, the, the reporters, I mean, we need, uh, uh, you know, similar number of SI mean, like you have of course,

Abhinandan: I mean, to go to each house and check, is that, that it's so difficult.

Mathematical. Yeah. You were saying Anand.

Anand: No, I'm saying that anomalies are there and there are rough phases to such exercise. If even if you check all the Russian cards in India, you will find number of anomalies. Sure. One person having multiple cent cards and a lot of other things, which is wrong. Which is true.

But

Abhinandan: no, no, I think, no, no. See for me, the thing is, see, that's too easy. That's actually, that is a counter to any argument on earth. See the three things that whenever, you know, I guess anyone weighs in on something. For me are given a, if it is not demonstrable, mathematically it is speculation. So that is need not be, it's too easy like it is.

One is speculating, what is the motive? Of course that is true for anything and everything. It's not unique for this. [01:19:00] So that for me is not an argument for anything actually. B, it's complex. Yes. So is everything else. What my position would be determined by is what has been the position and response to these problems by the protagonists, in this case being the election commission, in this case being the party in power and in this being, being the opposition.

Is the opposition corrupt and in power? Yes it is. But how is that an argument about anything? Do all the parties have some stage either opposed evms or not opposed evms? Yes. But how is that relevant to anything? Complexity is a fact of life in everything. Now, lemme give you an example that has nothing to do with this.

There is an immigration problem in us. I think we can all agree whether we are white, brown, black is the answer. The cages that Trump is putting people in now, one can say it is complex. Trump's motivations are noble. For me, that is an [01:20:00] argument I can easily demolish. They may be maybe Trump's motivations are very noble of putting people in cages, taking 200 children away from their parents.

I think it is dog whistles of racism. Can I mathematically prove it? No, but is that it's a complex problem. We don't know Trump's motivation is that for me, a robust counter to the argument? No. 'cause that is true for everything. That is not mathematics.

Anand: See, election commissions philosophy for decades has been not of perfection.

It let give, it has always been of incremental adequacy. Like now, yes, we will include this. Now, this, now they have extended that the deadline to the date of nomination and filing of nomination. Yeah. So for decades they have been, uh, following this philosophy, uh, and this is my term. Uh, it's loaded. But anyway, incremental adequacy that, okay, now we will be adequate.[01:21:00]

Let's add this, let's add that. So, uh, that, that is one point. Second, is that a powerful body? Uh. We'll always like we will not answer that. We will not give you access to that. It'll, uh, you know, that the, uh, one of the classics of, uh, a classical foundation of video is that it'll have a monopoly of information.

So, and that, that election commission with its constitutional powers, it has lot of powers and it'll not, that is also very incremental process. You cannot expect this election commission will stand in. In fact, uh, from eighties, nineties, it has always been giving away bit by bit, bit by bit these things. I, eh, 2009, nine election commissioners fought among themselves that he's [01:22:00] this party appointee.

Hmm. He is that point party appointee now,

Abhinandan: which is why, which is why so two. That same logic applies both ways, which is why a journalist's job is to keep hammering at that. A journalist's job is not to justify that. If a journalist line is, I will go against you. I think that is consistent with what is their role.

If the role of power is to clinging, to power, the role of journalism is to keep hammering at that. If that appears partisan, so be it. But I think just the way the default setting of bureaucracy is what you say it is, why does the same logic not apply to journalism? That's a default setting of journalism.

They will stick to that line and they will keep hammering at this guy until he succumbs or he gives incremental power, which is what democracy's all about, which is why journalism is called the fourth pillar democracy. If it is say, oh, that is a role of power, so we will sit and wait for them to give it to us.

Why, what is the [01:23:00] incentive for them to concede power if there is no one hammering at them? Okay, so what is the incentive for any human being?

Anand: Because, uh, if, uh, because, uh, if, uh, one, uh, the say election commission side or the state side is not shown, that does not aid my understanding. So, uh, that does not aid my understanding of the complexity of the mess or of other aspects of the larger phenomenon.

If I read only that I have to read this, I have to be into this, I have to keep questioning. That is one aspect I will read. I will read other aspects also, uh, on many accounts. Official account can also be correct and, uh, uh, so for developing understanding, just as a curious on looker of society, politics, and people, you don't have to be a, like a.

Only the, the powerful will always speak [01:24:00] wrong. That is not my list. It's an

Manisha: over complication of a simple thing. The EC itself said something that we are entering this exercise to clean up the rules. You haven't because you had less time. So that's a simple, now ascribing motive to it is, I don't agree with it.

I don't think that's enough to say that elections are being stolen in India. But what you set out today, you didn't do. And that I think ample reporting has highlighted that as it should.

Raman : Yeah. Like journalists always have this duty of doubt and we will keep doubting whatever happens. Uh, and especially those in power, they have to, I mean, we have to doubt.

Now, in this particular case, also say, if the EC follows the policy of incremental adequacy, let us assume then, don't you think that they should have consulted with political parties before coming up with SIR? Because I mean, it, it, it, it is concerned with us. It impacts, so why we doubt their motive, why all of a sudden we find a headline?

I mean, they, they hold a press conference [01:25:00] from, I mean, tomorrow onwards, just two months before the B election. No. Also, and they had done it in J January.

Abhinandan: No. Also, there is a reason they don't hold election in March now because the schools are used as election votes and, uh, board exam happens in March.

Similarly, monsoon, similarly winter, there are various reasons. So suddenly when they knew there's gonna be a bond soon, there is flooding in that state. Every year there are so many things that they actually take into account while scheduling anything. Okay. But on this, none of those things take into account, which is inconsistent with every other decision that's taken.

Anand: Yeah. So, yes. So, uh, I don't agree with the point that it didn't achieve anything that it set out to do. It has some, it has done some filtering of citizenship, uh, not to the degree that it would, that is not a job, that is not their job citizenship. No, of course. Of course. If in Article 3 26, if you read the, and, uh, uh, if you read it in, [01:26:00] uh.

Conjunction with the, uh, electorals rules 1960. Thus non-residents test. Yes. It is a test of residency, not citizenship. That is No, no. You, you have not, uh, read the arguments in the court. The court said first the Supreme Court said that you cannot test citizenship for HHA. Correct. Then you read the affidavit of the, uh, sure.

But, but election commission, it said that article in 3 26 if non non-residents and you have high court rulings that Okay. Aha. Is not a test. Uh, um, means, uh. A citizenship, proof of citizenship identity. So even Supreme Court changed its position, it got in line with the, uh, that citizenship. If, if, if also e constitutional mandate is such that it [01:27:00] cannot be cast in a stone, uh, uh, like, like today, I don't require it.

Tomorrow, I will not require it. It is not such that as, as of now, as of second September, 2025. It is not.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Anand: If in parliament we have constitutional amendments to curtail power to that, then that's a different ballgame. But as of now, it is not.

Abhinandan: But that was not a stated objective. What I'm saying is these, these, it was one of them because, no, it was not that.

See, again, we are saying that the, uh.

They can keep come up coming up with these gymnastics that, oh, it is Supreme Court said it is not your job to test citizenship. Which is true, they said, but by secondary nature of what we are doing, it does test citizenship, but that's not their job. There's a difference. It is like saying, I am breathing out.

It is not my job to manufacturing carbon dioxide, but it is getting manufactured. That is not my job. No. See, so in that sense, so in that sense, [01:28:00] one can contort one's purpose, but that was not the stated, are we saying that the ECS job was to check citizenship? Is that it cannot The stated objective, it was never the stated objective.

Now, if they're saying they're doing that, because by secondary nature of what we are doing, it will test citizenship. That's not even the point.

Anand: Yeah. It, it, it's, it's a tangential objective because, but that was, lemme lemme, in last seven or eight years in Bihar, there, along the border districts, there have been concern of influx from, uh, say Bangladesh, Nepal and political parties have done this representation to district magistrates.

Sure. And, and that has been conveyed to ec So EC has this tangential objective this in, in, it's, I'm not convinced

Manisha: how many Azi citizens has, the officials

Abhinandan: have said this, they may say, but I'm not convinced. I think it's a shit reason. But they can say what they want. But I'm just saying they say no [01:29:00] many that is the has been identified

Manisha: in this.

Abhinandan: We'll see that they can what they want. Dude. Information commissioners have said that getting the information on such and such tender is, you know, privileged information because it violates someone's, they can say it, I don't buy it.

Raman : Yeah. There will be total anarch now even Supreme Court is talking about this.

If you are, uh, how do you identify Bangladesh? I mean if somebody is Muslim speaks Bangali is Bangladeshi police.

Abhinandan: What they put out was also, I dunno what they were thinking. So

Raman : chaotic of

Manisha: last I heard anything on this, at least in the news was sources saying we have found Bangladesh, but nothing was officially said that we deleted these many Bangladeshi from the voter rolls.

Where is that?

Anand: If that is the role in Indeed that we'll release, we, anyway, we not come to the numbers, but the filtering has to be done. [01:30:00] Filtering has to be done. If, uh, that was one of the concerns, it has to be looked into. We, we will get more information maybe in future, but as of now, what we know, the filtering, that filtering could, should not have been done.

This, that, that, that is a different, that that is a normative issue. The

Raman : thing should be done. But what are the criteria? I mean, that's what Supreme Court is questioning. No. Supreme Court is saying I think, and I don't think, don't think and Muslim. Yeah. But I don't think the

Abhinandan: Election Commission right now has the wherewithal to actually even undertake that task.

They can, yeah. And not in

Manisha: two months. They can't, this is an exercise that even six months, they

Abhinandan: don't have to take that task. For that you need other ministries involved. But for those who said that did not spend enough time discussing, I. Your wish. Our command, we have spent almost 30 minutes. Oh, let's, uh,

Manisha: quickly go to the next, says, hi team.

I'm currently delayed on the sh Jammu Highway near Kagan, waiting for the police to allow us to proceed towards Jammu. I started my journey at 6:00 AM to avoid the [01:31:00] usual 9:00 AM Yara movement, but unfortunately I've been stopped six times already. We've just been informed we won't be allowed to continue until after 9:30 AM The situation raises some critical questions for me via, aren't ya threes transported via railways, which.

Could elevate road congestion? Is it truly necessary to restrict local access to their own roads for a relatively small group undertaking a personal trip? The current arrangements are incredibly frustrating and make me feel choked by the inconvenience. I believe these points warrant serious consideration and there's been that, uh, rain related tragedy on, but that was vvi, I think.

Yeah,

Abhinandan: but I think, which I think

Manisha: there was a warning against, but they continued with it.

Abhinandan: But I think, yeah, ra something which are, I mean, they're too big. It's a very complex issue, um, when it comes to religious pilgrimages. So, I mean, to put through the issue of complexity, it is so profound in the very nature of man that I don't think decisions are rational.

Like I don't think the HJ is a rational decision. [01:32:00] I mean, when I go to the airport during Hudge season, I'm blown away by people who are really not well off at all, would spend so much money for this pilgrimage. For what? And the airport is just full. I don't think I, I mean I used to like going to Goma for trekking and all rather than going to barina for pilgrimage is a rational decision.

So these are politically huge sensitive. So even with a small amount who are going there, the impact from a national point of view, yeah. These are not, uh, it's not about convenience, in my view of the rest of the panel convey is

Raman : religious tourism and his personal choice. So I don't, no, no.

Abhinandan: What

Raman : he's saying is

Abhinandan: that the amount of people inconvenience for a small amount of Yaris.

The cost benefit doesn't work out. I think in Jammu there is, the cost benefit analysis is not limited to that geography. Mm. It extends to the whole country.

Manisha: Jammu. There is this, uh, I mean, in the Valley, in Jammu, the after effect of you couldn't have [01:33:00] afforded another such thing in a number nara, so the security arrangements around with it would've been extremely complicated and would be inconvenient for the locals.

There's no doubt about that. You also don't want to, you wanna send a message that it hasn't stopped our daily life, so we are gonna go ahead with the ara. So I think there's a specific added issue there. Uh, ANA and IX has, hi folks. Interesting discussion on tourism. This is Ana. I wanted to weigh in about the different rates of entry tourist places that we wake mentioned.

Museum entries in Europe have different prices for different age groups, students, seniors, et cetera. But the general entry is very high In places like Netherlands, France, Austria, Germany, anywhere between 15 to 20 pounds. Purchasing power of Indians, visiting tourists, places like Taal opposed with foreigners is a world apart.

Indians visiting foreign locations are fleed in more official ways. Example, international students in the UK pay more than twice the rate of home students really in every university. I didn't know that. They pay twice the amount.

Abhinandan: Yeah, easily.

Manisha: Wow. Keep up the good work. But there's no price differences.

It's just that our currency [01:34:00] is,

Abhinandan: no,

Manisha: there's a price difference, of course.

Abhinandan: International students pay more. And this is true for, um, I mean, I don't know about uk, but it's true for, uh, Europe for sure.

Manisha: Says, yeah. This is an AI summary. Hannu Hannu says, I'm from Varda, currently pursuing PhDs in bologna writing in response to 5 44, discussion on Indian tourism, civic behavior, and public culture. Having lived in Germany now Italy and worked in Goa, poi and Delhi as an architect, I've observed India, both within and from afar.

The issue isn't just about development or resources, it's about behavior, values, political indifference. Our public spaces aren't only unclean, they are unloved. There's little sense of ownership over the commons indifference to nature, and a food culture that glorifies unhygienic as authenticity. Yeah, there's always a joke.

That's what we tell ourselves. Mediocrity and chaos are celebrated as, as resilience. And what better time than monsoons? [01:35:00] To actually note that, right. All resilient cities like Mumbai and abroad to many Indians carry entitlement mistreating staff, ignoring cues, disregarding norms, not from poverty or ignorance, but from values.

Politics enables this by rewarding noise over substance infrastructures. Tokenistic campaigns are hollow traditions glorified while basic like toilets or transport fail. What India lacks is a civic imagination, dignity in public life, and connection to the environment. When can we have a political party that takes us up?

Hanano.

Abhinandan: I completely agree with you and I'll have, you know, Manisha doesn't agree with you.

Manisha: I agree wholeheartedly with him.

Abhinandan: Manisha, no. His is

Manisha: a very perceptive, uh,

Abhinandan: Manisha, I will rule. It's very

Manisha: different. Don't compare it with what you say. Yours is like, oh, everyone's an asshole. This is very different.

That's, this is a very perceptive view of the Indian condition, which I agree with.

Abhinandan: I have said the same. No, I have said the same thing at his one line, which says, and this is not from poverty or ignorance, but from values and the criticism I had is you said it's because Indians are poor. They're [01:36:00] like that.

And I said, no, it has nothing to do with that. You go to a five star hotel, they behave the same way. You go to a gym, which you pay one lack, one and a half lack membership, they behave the same way. I don't pay one lack. It's got nothing to do with poverty or ignorance. No, a lot. Part of the rich Indians are also as unhygienic, they don't have any civic sense.

They're as bad. It has nothing to with poverty or ignorance. And we disagreed on this.

Manisha: No,

Abhinandan: don't, no, I would, I would

Manisha: say a larger problem is like URA and all is, there's also poverty as a factor of course. But I agree with the values also. Indian men especially. But this is a very, uh, perceptive analysis.

It's different from saying we are all assholes. Which is what you say, your thing is always.

Your thing is so like it's too, uh, yeah. Right. Anyway, that was a very nice email and um, this place is being unloved is very, very true. Um, Abha says, grateful to Manisha for highlighting this India squandering its vast tourism potential due to [01:37:00] self-inflicted issues, dirty cities, unchecked, exploitation of hills and coasts ish.

She rightly pointed out the obsession with Hill construction. But what personally pains me is the Great Nicobar project. Having lived in Campbell Bay in great Nicobar for two years, it's ridiculous that a place with barely thousand settlers is being turned into trans shipment hub. India has immense tourism potential, but only you've developed responsibly.

Honestly, I hesitate to share hidden gems like Nicobar. Great nicobar fearing irresponsible tourists panel said, no. Indian City matches global urban planning, but Gandhi Nagar, in my views, an exception. Clean green, well planned and the best capital city today. I think garden is quite nice. True, but I never look at it.

Look at it as a. Natural city, something very unnatural about it. Sadly, cities like my hometown can't put a worsening by the day. Even smaller cities like Poor Buner where I currently live, far better hope Anna closed these neglected cities in more depth.

Abhinandan: Hmm. That's your very broad thing, but, uh, on Great Nuba, who did scroll, did a report, right?

Scroll

Manisha: has been doing a

Abhinandan: series, they very good report. [01:38:00] You should check out, scroll for, for, for that.

Manisha: And I'm, I mean this season, these letters came I think about a month or two ago. But this season especially illustrates the havoc that we've wreaked in the name of Tourism Hial is, I mean, it's just, that makes me hopeless.

Abhinandan: So I'll just read out two more emails and it'll wind up for the day. Uh, this is from eth. Nice and short, 51 words. Hi Kudo Sonya. Coverage on Ali. Want to ask your opinion Proceedings in Parliament, they are banning online games because most of the electoral bonds in TN and Andra were from gaming companies.

Is that right? I didn't know that. I dunno if that's actually true. So we must put that Sara. I hope you've done your due diligence on this. Um, is it revenge on electoral bonds? I don't know if that's in fact true. Uh, I had heard another theory that this is a promise to behar women because their husbands are gambling.

This is like, um, prohibition part two. But, um, we've discussed this in detail last hafta with, [01:39:00] but is that, do you, have you heard of this that most of the electoral bond were from gaming company?

Manisha: No, and I don't think that's true.

Abhinandan: Okay.

Manisha: There was this one betting there, lot tricking of, but I don't know, but he, he had another one to everybody

Abhinandan: and Manan says, hi team. I generally always have positive feedback. Uh, but not today about Ab Singhi interview. Shva argues them for 10 minutes about interference versus actual proof. It's as if every statement that a politician makes a hundred percent true, uh, but we can't give has done something different.

It's absolute waste of time. It doesn't matter whether rgs inferring something or giving proof. The whole issue is that there is discrepancy, which ECA did not clarify. Uh, further, at least even in dysfunctional democracies like us, they should have done a proper investigation on Rahi raised allegations.

Instead, we saw what a shit show they had. This was the first time I felt Andel could do a better job. Manan, I hope you always see Andel could do a better job because [01:40:00] we always still can do a better job than what we did. But, uh, your, uh, feedback shall be passed on to Vaso. Not a problem. Chi Wallah has said, hi, team Manel.

Want to appreciate how nuisance handle the Air India crash coverage. Adding manisha's recorded note after the episode draft showed real care and editorial integrity. It would've been easy to air the prerecorded episode as is, but that short update, acknowledging both the gravity of the news and the timing limitations, it is honest, thoughtful, and exactly the kind of sensitivity, uh, associated with nuisance curiosity to Manish and the team.

Manisha: Thank you.

Abhinandan: Thank you. And that's it. You can, uh, send us mail on podcasts@newsrun.com or click on the link in the show note below. Uh, we only entertain the emails of subscribers, so do subscribe. You can scan this QR code page to keep news free. We'd like to thank. Our wonderful producer, Amit, our wonderful sound record.

Anil Rama. Manisha. Thank you. And Anan. Thank you. Thank bye. Thank you so

Manisha: much.[01:41:00]

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