NL Hafta Subscribers’ Take Ep 4: A special feedback episode

In this special episode of NL Hafta , Abhinandan Sekhri, Manisha Pande, Jayashree Arunachalam and Anand Vardhan catch up on all the letters – around 64 of them – that we’ve received from subscribers.

Hafta letters: Gaza, Chandrachud interview, subscription tips, Mamdani and caste

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. Time codes

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:02:13 - Letters

References

Jai Bhagwan Goel on issues close to his heart

Produced by Amit Pandey and Ashish; Sound by Naresh

. [00:00:00] Manisha: This is a News Laundry podcast and you're listening to NFTA

[00:00:13] Abhinandan: News. We are here with a special hafta episode that we call subscribers Take. This is when we get all the emails that have been accumulated over the last four to six weeks that we could not include in a regular haftar, and we address them on subscribers. Take so that none of your inputs, critiques, suggestions go unheard, unheated, or undiscussed.

[00:00:39] Abhinandan: That the purpose of this, um, Merry Christmas, by the way. Those of you who may be celebrating or, uh, what is it?

[00:00:50] Manisha: What

[00:00:51] Abhinandan: It's also no, far more important. Yes.

[00:00:56] Manisha: No, 24 December birthday. That's when [00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Anand: it's on.

[00:01:01] Manisha: I think it's some something.

[00:01:03] Anand: I think 25th December is his birthday. Not 20,

[00:01:06] Abhinandan: 25th. Yeah.

[00:01:07] Manisha: But it is some type thing.

[00:01:09] Abhinandan: Okay, fine. So we have many. So whatever you celebrate, we hope you get gifts. And that gift is this QR code that is flashing before you right now. There's a link in the show notes. We have a special offer this time of the year, holiday season support journalism pay to keep news free. You have seen over the years what we could do because we don't take any, uh, ads from governments.

[00:01:34] Abhinandan: In fact, there's a big story coming up. By the time this goes up. And this story is about someone who is a key media coordinator for the country and the fact that no one has the guts to do this story tells you all that there is to know about journalism, how it's funded, and that is why it does what it does.

[00:01:54] Abhinandan: QR code link to the rest. Join me in the studio. Anan, welcome Arun. [00:02:00] Hello, Manisha Padre.

[00:02:01] Manisha: Hi. And it's good governance day. I just Googled it's good governance

[00:02:05] Abhinandan: day

[00:02:06] Manisha: to foster the understanding of accountability among citizens. So our report will certainly do that.

[00:02:11] Abhinandan: Yeah, 'cause accountability is important. Also, joining us from Chennai is Jesse

[00:02:16] Jayashree: Jay Re Hello.

[00:02:17] Jayashree: Hello.

[00:02:18] Abhinandan: Yeah. So let's, uh, start. No headlines, we'll just get into the emails. Uh, by the way, if you want to mail us and give us your feedback, you have to be a subscriber. You can click on the link below or mail us at podcasts at News Laundry podcasts at News Laundry, and please keep your mail less than one 50 words.

[00:02:42] Manisha: Okay, here goes. First one is from Waal Singh. Says Hello News Laundry team. Kudos to your work. I recently watched a very old interview, a and then with J Wan Goyle, which was quite witty. This guy was denied the MLA ticket in the recent deli elections from a constituency near mine. And this is what I saw a few days ago.

[00:02:59] Manisha: [00:03:00] Looks like he's still trying to remain as relevant as possible thought you might, might not find it interesting. I remember this J Wan Gole. When did you interview him?

[00:03:07] Abhinandan: I interviewed him. Uh, this was the first year when he joined. You had not, we had not been blessed by my presence, your entry into new laundry team.

[00:03:16] Abhinandan: He used to be the deli in charge of the sh when Sen was, was trying to, and later he, I guess fell out with Balhara. Balak realized deli's not worth with pursuing. So he started his own, um. I don't know what I was on his mailing list for the longest.

[00:03:34] Anand: Dug up the,

[00:03:35] Abhinandan: he dug up the, that Pakistan not pay here. Okay. And I had asked him the question and it was, I, I agree. Okay. And here's the link here. Here's a little clip. Check that out.[00:04:00] [00:05:00]

[00:05:24] Interview clip : You call social service. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:29] Manisha: Says hello everyone in past few H twice ab, then discuss Anki, and recently about power. I was recently reading Chomsky on the same subject, and I just wanted to quote him here. The core of anarchist tradition, as I understand it, is the power is always illegitimate unless it proves itself to be legitimate.

[00:05:45] Manisha: So the burden of proof is always on. Those who claim that some authoritarian hierarchy relation is legitimate. If they can't prove it, then it should be dismantled. It's the responsibility of those who exercise power to show that somehow it's legitimate. It's not. [00:06:00] The responsibility of anyone else to show that it's illegitimate.

[00:06:02] Manisha: It's illegitimate by assumption. If it's relation of authority among human beings, which places above others, unless you give a strong argument to show that it's right, you've lost.

[00:06:11] Abhinandan: So I think between GE and Anan will have the most, the two in-house and a no no in-house philosophers. And well read one of them may be borderline anarchist.

[00:06:22] Abhinandan: In fact, the other one I would say, say that's a,

[00:06:24] Jayashree: that's definitely aist is

[00:06:25] Abhinandan: No, no Anand. There's borderline conformist. You are borderline anarchist. True. You are both on that side. So how was bag sings? Uh uh, philosophy or an anarchy came from? Where do either of you know, have you read enough about his views on anarchy?

[00:06:38] Manisha: Bing? No.

[00:06:40] Abhinandan: BSing was a self-proclaimed anarchist, but I dunno where his philosophy, it's Why you talking

[00:06:43] Manisha: about Gering? This is Chomsky.

[00:06:44] Abhinandan: I know, but since he's talking about what is anarchy.

[00:06:47] Manisha: Okay.

[00:06:47] Abhinandan: I mean, in my view, if a government is democratically elected, that is sufficient. Evidence of its legitimacy. But, uh, o other than that, everything is a legend, but [00:07:00] yeah.

[00:07:00] Abhinandan: What No

[00:07:00] Anand: classical socialists were typecast as anarchist the tradition. Robert Oin, Saint Simon. Hmm. And the scientific, uh, socialism, which was presented as, uh, say. Communism with Marxist philosophy. So in the last pH of even Marxist theory, he says that, uh, when the state will wither away, so we will have enough time to face and do critique.

[00:07:29] Anand: And, uh, basically, uh, I think recently times of India wrote about this Musk's idea of artificial intelligence ha and people having no work. Mm. And it equated him with Marx, that Marx also said that it would be a workless world. Mm. Uh, our, our, our work would be redefined. So, uh, in that sense, when he say his marks, that state will weer away.

[00:07:55] Anand: So Ings, uh, uh. Say [00:08:00] relation with an artist line that he's talking about is about that. That also the intercolonial struggle. So, but uh, uh, and they thought that socialism would be the transitional stage between the capitalism and communism, where the dictatorship of the proletariat will be there. And once the dictatorship of proletariat attains that goal of classless society, the state will be there away because it's a bourgeois institution, a state.

[00:08:32] Anand: So along with bourgeois state will also be there with that's what, but, uh. The problem is how and so on that Marx is very silent and that how it'll be the way, even the early liberals, the classical liberals, they talk about just a policeman estate, a watchman estate with two important functions that protection of life and property.

[00:08:58] Anand: So the most hated [00:09:00] institution of liberals say the police institution is in fact inevitable to their institu. Inevitable means it is indispensable to any governed society. So your, any views on anarchy and I

[00:09:13] Jayashree: mean, I think arguably anarchy is like an extension of socialism in that. Maybe most anarchists would be socialists in that they oppose hierarchies and therefore capitalism is the greatest example of a hierarchical sort of society, and they want to dismantle it.

[00:09:29] Jayashree: So within that very broad definition, I would say yes. And would I call myself an anarchist? I probably don't do enough work to comfortably wear it, but yeah, I'm not opposed to the philosophy of it at all.

[00:09:43] Abhinandan: Speaking of Chomsky, I hope all of you saw his photograph with Steve Bannon on Epstein Island or wherever, when Epstein's mansion at his party.

[00:09:49] Abhinandan: Wasn't

[00:09:50] Manisha: it an island or where

[00:09:50] Abhinandan: at Basically it was an Epstein party. It was Epstein hosted evening. And this is after Epstein had already pled guilty

[00:09:58] Abhinandan: Yes.

[00:09:58] Abhinandan: Of sex trafficking [00:10:00] or whatever the fuck it was. So boss, no matter how good you be, as they say in Bengal, even the most holier than thou philosophers have ur, you know all

[00:10:12] Manisha: No, no.

[00:10:13] Manisha: You

[00:10:13] Abhinandan: know, all

[00:10:14] Manisha: sounds like a dish. Ish. Yeah.

[00:10:18] Abhinandan: So AUR do is a Bengali phrase, which was taught to me by the Bengalis who we know is basically AUR is small potatoes do is the fault of the small potatoes. So person who has a wandering dick is a, he has all dos. Basically AUR do is someone who cannot keep his allures in control.

[00:10:40] Jayashree: I really wish you hadn't told us this. It was so much, it really sounded like some

[00:10:45] Manisha: something, something eat.

[00:10:53] Manisha: He like that. These, and we've only

[00:10:56] Jayashree: read two letters. 73 to go.

[00:10:59] Abhinandan: Alright, I'll keep [00:11:00] quiet for the rest. Go ahead.

[00:11:00] Manisha: Says, I just watched a recent episode where the topic of discussion was deli bombing and everyone was kind of shocked that these people were educated doctors and still did this kind of thing. But why are we still shocked that educated people believe in this type of stuff?

[00:11:11] Manisha: Education doesn't mean you'll become a rational human being. If that were the case, the caste system patriarchy would've been long gone. Heck, Debar founded the RSS sa Jina, both studied law in Britain. Why do we value degrees and professions so much in this country is officers take dowry, women get surgeries to get a lighter skin tone and become virgin again in order to get married.

[00:11:29] Manisha: So let's not do this mainstream argument that if someone is educated or earns well, he may, he or she may be a good person. My Miranda as well. No. And I think when it comes to terrorism, uh, there have been many engineers, many educated people who've, you know, joined the ranks of Al-Qaeda. But I think the shock was more to do with the fact that there's a nurse, there's a college where multiple arrests have been made and there's a nexus of doctors.

[00:11:54] Manisha: So that was kind of, it was not shocking because they're educated. But it was surprising to note the [00:12:00] nexus. No,

[00:12:01] Jayashree: no. But I do think there's this sort of middle class, upper middle class horror at the idea that, uh, there's this belief that somebody with a degree therefore is smarter, more world, sort of worldly than somebody who's poor and who can't afford to sort of go to school or go to college.

[00:12:16] Jayashree: You know, like we do put that sort of, we put a premium on people who have degrees, especially if you have multiple degrees, hyphenated degrees. Degrees from top colleges, degrees from abroad. So. I don't disagree with him at all.

[00:12:29] Abhinandan: Well, I don't think the surprise, at least that's what I thought it was, is because of education.

[00:12:37] Abhinandan: I think it's because, because you are privileged and are financially stable, you have less to lose. That is what I thought is the surprise. And I think that's a legitimate surprise if I have more to lose. Like why was, um, who was the rule of alqaeda leader? Osama Osama. Why was he an unlikely? 'cause he was a multimillionaire in the eighties.

[00:12:59] Abhinandan: Why would he want to go live [00:13:00] in Torah? He could have been like SD, not MSD, MSB, whatever. Who's the Saudi dude?

[00:13:06] Manisha: Mb s Moham. B. S Saudi dude.

[00:13:08] Abhinandan: So you know, Ash, Kara Ferrari. So because you have more to lose, the same reason the people who attend rallies are not people who can get their work done by calling their uncle auntie IS or if, you know, some reporter ate.

[00:13:23] Abhinandan: So I think because you have more to lose, like why the fuck would you get into this if you have nothing to lose? The same reason that is the way people rationalize that. And

[00:13:32] Manisha: you have a future ahead of you. You have a life. Yeah. And like

[00:13:34] Abhinandan: a tribal who has their back to the wall. So I'll pick up arms. Yeah, dude, I have nothing to live for if you children are starving.

[00:13:39] Abhinandan: So that is the, I don't think it's got anything with degrees.

[00:13:43] Jayashree: See, that I think is a rational way to think about this idea of privilege and having things to lose. But I, I don't think that's what people, when I say people, I mean like general public sort of arguments you see on Twitter, which is a very small reflection of what people actually think.

[00:13:56] Jayashree: I don't think that's what people are looking at when they're saying, oh my God, can you believe he's a doctor? [00:14:00] And he's still like involved in these sort of things. But again, it's all very anecdotal, so I don't,

[00:14:05] Anand: I think, uh, it's also related to the surge of meaning. So someone attaches a meaning to that when he makes a public cause private.

[00:14:15] Anand: So most of the public cause professionals, uh, are there because that's a career for them because Right. Many people are public spirited because it's a career, it's a career to us, not essentially they are public spirited, but they can make the career. Uh, and then, then these causes come, like, say that causes that this terrorist, uh, advance now.

[00:14:40] Anand: They have, uh, somehow, uh, attached some meaning to their pursuit and made a very public cause very personal. So that makes them forego the, say, the lure of privilege or the courier ahead of them.

[00:14:57] Abhinandan: Okay.

[00:14:58] Manisha: Says, how are collapsing bridges, [00:15:00] frequent flooding not an issue in Bihar? How is just not directly responsible for all of them?

[00:15:04] Manisha: Am I focusing on something that doesn't matter with the people?

[00:15:07] Abhinandan: I already think its 10,000 rupees. Yeah. You just, that's a lot of money also

[00:15:12] Manisha: at people have a long view of

[00:15:15] Abhinandan: what he did with that girl in the hijab. He's, he's, oh god, he's insane, dude. I, he's not mentally sound here. I, I can identify because I've seen three in the family.

[00:15:25] Abhinandan: I can identify a person who's suffering from dementia. They have that. Look in the eye. He has that spaced outlook, please.

[00:15:30] Anand: So the thing is that, uh, how he is getting through, is that what people say? I don't have definitive information. Is that for like, uh, any patient of that disease? Mm, he is okay for few hours.

[00:15:44] Anand: Mm. He can do a few things, uh, in a functional way. Uh, but, uh, uh, particularly after, uh, say the, um, sunset or a kind of, it's not to do with [00:16:00] evening, but uh, passage of particular hours. He's not, so there was a lot of, uh, speculation. Why didn't he join Prime Minister for the rally in Patnam? The, so, uh, the reasons were, um, cited as political that there's some, but the window,

[00:16:17] Abhinandan: window of sanity had gone.

[00:16:19] Anand: So, but, but the reason people were talking about was this, that you're absolutely right. But

[00:16:24] Manisha: yeah, that, uh, whole incident of, and that. Woman is saying that she doesn't wanna, I mean I feel at least now after the whole thing, they should have made some, which is the government or whatever his representative said.

[00:16:36] Manisha: Okay. Sorry for what happened. So they filed an I or something?

[00:16:38] Abhinandan: Yeah, an I has the, I

[00:16:40] Manisha: dunno what locus that person has. I think she's a Sam Party leader if I'm not mistaken in, I don't know if you can file a FI on behalf of something or something like this. Like I have to file the FIR saying that I've been, I think they

[00:16:51] Jayashree: filed it zero.

[00:16:52] Jayashree: They filed it as a zero zero FIR. Yeah. So.

[00:16:55] Manisha: Okay, so Tika says that, uh, we've summarized it [00:17:00] through AI because your letter was long, long Tika. So you've said that. Thank you for your work for sustaining faith in journalism. I'm writing about Gaza Israel discussion in Haha 5 5 9, which left me deeply unsettled Dr.

[00:17:10] Manisha: J's Opening remarks if liberals and the woke cared about women's rights was disappointing and went largely unchallenged despite liberals historically leading struggles for women's right, her affiliation with a huff, his affiliation with a Haifa based university also raised questions of neutrality.

[00:17:27] Manisha: Randan focus on student remarks at Columbia felt misplaced. The greater concern is how protests was suppressed and criticism of Israel or the IDF was quickly labeled, antisemitic. These are not the same things. There is an extensive documentation of violence and dehumanization of Palestinians by soldiers and civilians alike.

[00:17:44] Manisha: Yet this is often ignored While dissent is vilified, equating both sides and echoing Israeli talking points felt unfair and troubling. I am not sure if he said this. I mean, I don't know if he said he did say that, but did he say this in such this thing if liberal it was in connection to what, after we talked about Iran.

[00:17:59] Manisha: Yeah, [00:18:00] he,

[00:18:00] Abhinandan: yeah, but he said that, I mean it was a, one of those rhetoric that drove these liberals are too, I mean, it was a manner of speaking, which is now increasingly common. But yeah, point taken this, this is a never ending debate. In fact, I had it over dinner, old friend of mine who was, you know, anyway, who is actually now come with another friend who's a Jew and his complicated relationship with Israel, he was talking about.

[00:18:27] Abhinandan: But this is a argument now. It cannot. Have any middle ground, I think. Anyway,

[00:18:32] Manisha: Raymond says, hi team. I'm a paying subscriber and have a query on Universe and said, Congress is dead in Behar Plus, please let me know how he arrived. At that conclusion, was the survey done Was an any analysis done on the campaign of Congress and other parties?

[00:18:44] Manisha: Was this a statement derived from a study? No. As you can see, as the results tell, Congress wasn't very alive and kicking, but he was talking about what he's seeing on the ground in terms of not much Carter, not much activity in the party. So Congress's ground game is pretty much [00:19:00] dead and be heard. That's what he meant.

[00:19:01] Manisha: It wasn't like a survey or anything,

[00:19:03] Abhinandan: but just, I mean from just so many, uh, reporters who go cover election on the ground, it's not scientific, but quite often I've seen they have a fair amount of accuracy because the more they travel, they get an idea of,

[00:19:16] Manisha: you know

[00:19:17] Abhinandan: what? People care about

[00:19:19] Anand: Congress

[00:19:20] Manisha: and ground game.

[00:19:20] Manisha: You can still judge as a reporter.

[00:19:22] Anand: Hmm. No, the chief, I say I, and not from people, but the Chief grudge of Congress workers in Bihar, uh, and most of them, not all of them, is that, uh, uh, it may take, uh, some years, some, uh, elections lost even r routed in some elections. But, uh, there wishes that Congress should go solo.

[00:19:45] Anand: Hmm. And, uh, uh, so, uh, that's, uh, the only way they find, uh, for revival of the party because I think, uh, uh, their contention is that Congress is, uh, taking a lot [00:20:00] of liability for rrg D'S rule. And that is hitting it even some chances of revival in some constituencies. That is

[00:20:10] Manisha: Sanjeev Khan says, high NL team.

[00:20:12] Manisha: I recently traveled to Bangalore for a couple of months. One of the most terrifying experiences that people are driving on the wrong side without any fear. Shame. Is that a bangal specific thing though? But with other dis utter disdain for fellow citizens. I can understand if delivery boys take shortcuts, but this is done by techies, senior, middle-aged people, even families with young children.

[00:20:29] Manisha: This makes day to day driving very dangerous. Please, can we talk about this? And I'll have that to raise citizen awareness. Don't drive on the wrong side. Driving on the wrong side is equivalent to a person waving a SWAT in a busy street. Wow.

[00:20:41] Abhinandan: So, uh, Sanjeev

[00:20:42] Manisha: from a tiny part of Kerala. Sanjeev, that's why he's shocked my back.

[00:20:45] Manisha: Yeah,

[00:20:45] Abhinandan: Sanjeev. But if you, uh, come to this part, the north NCR in Delhi, less so, but in NoDa and go Gao, it's optional where you wanna drive. That's clearly the rule 'cause people [00:21:00] drive everywhere and the further you go towards up there are these 1214 lane highways that, I'm not joking, I've driven on those.

[00:21:09] Abhinandan: The people is coming the wrong way, like at 70, 80, not even like tentatively. So yeah, it's unusual in your part of the world, but in our part of the world it's, that's the rule.

[00:21:19] Jayashree: But I also think it's an India thing where like, I mean, you go to any other south or southeast Asian country, which is technically supposed to be in the same sort of.

[00:21:26] Jayashree: Third, third world tier is India is. And yes, the traffic is hideous and very chaotic or whatever, but at the end of the day, you cross the road and they will slow down. I think India is one of the only countries where you cross the road and they will speed up because they literally don't care. So

[00:21:42] Abhinandan: yes, I agree with you.

[00:21:43] Manisha: VI says hello folks. Just wanted to know whether TMR session for 2025 would be available in podcast format as I prefer the same over YouTube video format with Bihar State election results. Do you think the opposition would use TU and SIR as a crutch now onwards, or could they do a deep dive into water turnout?

[00:21:59] Manisha: Gather [00:22:00] CCTV footage and find out if there was any of this, this election? Where would they put limited resources on the future SIR and state elections or this one? Where would they put their Olympic? I need more of Jeffrey's

[00:22:12] Abhinandan: rants. You missed out that key line.

[00:22:14] Manisha: No, no. Iia I was finishing it. You, you didn't let me finish.

[00:22:19] Manisha: Just so hurtful.

[00:22:20] Abhinandan: I think elections though. I don't, I don't think anything gonna be revisited there.

[00:22:23] Manisha: Yeah, the result is fine. Even the vtu focus seems to be Karnataka and I learned, um, says I wanna ban and then as Indian Muslim, that I didn't come from any other country to India. We are from here only. But Zionists didn't belong to Palestine.

[00:22:39] Manisha: They came from other countries. Some of them bought land from Palestinians, but most of them came in occupied lands of Arabs like they're doing in West Bank right now. Apart from this, I have a question In film industry producer means who's giving money for filmmaking? What does producer mean in a news office?

[00:22:55] Abhinandan: So I'll tell you a knock. They're not giving

[00:22:58] Manisha: us any money. [00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Abhinandan: So one is, uh, a producer actually is someone, if you see a phenomenal film called Wag the Dog. Where Dustin Hoffman plays the producer and he brings Robert Niro like bunch of people, special effects guys. He says, what is production? He's the guy who makes the orchestra work together.

[00:23:21] Abhinandan: He gets a project done. He'll find the musician, he'll find this in, he'll find the set and he'll even find the money. So in Bollywood, back in the day, producer was the one who was giving the money, but now the finance and the producer became separate. There's an executive producer who's actually executing the project, but producer is basically the ones who's putting everything together, set studio permissions, star finances, YVO on your earlier this thing.

[00:23:46] Abhinandan: Okay. I completely agree with you. I actually was not saying you're not from here, and I think you knew that. But anyway. What would you tell a child who was born in 1960 in Jerusalem? [00:24:00] I mean, the logic that your. Yourself would not apply to that child. And I just find that the courtesy with which one deals with one owns heritage.

[00:24:10] Abhinandan: If you cannot extend that to others, then maybe you shouldn't be so generous to yourself and extend it to yourself. I, I think there is a whole lot of hideous things that have happened there. But what is the cutoff date? Because that generation is live. You can say, no, you kid, you don't belong here. But a child whose parents came there when they were 2018, got married, had had a kid at 19, 19 55, 19 60, that child today is 40, 50 years old.

[00:24:37] Abhinandan: What are you gonna tell him? You don't belong here. Why?

[00:24:42] Jayashree: I mean, the answer to that question is that we will. We constantly say there is space for that question, but there is never any space for the other thing, which is that with the Palestinians who were here first, yet, that is now not their land. So if we're saying that a Jewish child who was born is Israeli because that is their home and that is their cutoff and this is where they are now, and that is [00:25:00] a very fair argument in a lot of ways.

[00:25:01] Jayashree: But the point is that always that you never ask the opposite question. And I feel like that is the, the missing link then, then, and I, I know what it descends into this entire world. What about sort of argument? But I do think there is no space for the answer to that second question, but there is always space for the first.

[00:25:17] Abhinandan: It depends where I think on hta there's space. I, I think on HTA there's space. What I'm saying is what, what I don't find smart debating is to ask me a question that you wanna ask. You know, maybe the bi I, yeah, that's not my position. What I'm saying is I don't believe that's a rational question. You have to convince me That's a rational question.

[00:25:38] Abhinandan: You cannot say that's an international question. But so that I don't care. Yes, it is. But your position is that this is rational. To say that they don't belong here. I don't see how that's rational. And if that is rational, then it is equally rational to ask someone of Saudi heritage or mug heritage. [00:26:00] What is your position?

[00:26:00] Abhinandan: I, I don't understand how that's different. It may be unfair right now.

[00:26:05] Manisha: Iranian heritage.

[00:26:06] Abhinandan: Yeah. Or a Parsi.

[00:26:08] Manisha: But yeah, it's, I don't, but also that question for Palestinians is, well, legitimate. Of course they belong there. Of do, I mean, I don't think there's no, so I've never said that and Bibb and all these guys, and you know, the extremists may not believe that, but there are plenty of people in the world who believe that this belongs to them.

[00:26:24] Manisha: That land is very much, yeah. So, so many people

[00:26:26] Abhinandan: believe that. Of course, it's, it's, I get the mainstream media is completely, you know. Financially driven, but yeah, I, I, I, I just think it's a dangerous thing to say that they don't have a right to exist. It's, it opens up too many other competing interests.

[00:26:43] Manisha: Keer says, the funny thing about Jemima R and the other women of the Indian team winning the semifinals is that now the same sexists are now posting memes about how these girls shut sexist mouths. But I also wish to point out in that these women are now being held up as morals of feminism. [00:27:00] This is the sports military feminism that sees women like Colonel Reishi or Jemima R as the only true feminists because they make the country proud while not proactively distributing the social order of the day-to-day life.

[00:27:12] Manisha: Here, the turnaround we see in social media narratives because it is comfortable to accept their achievements, which all which is also using it as follow to deflect from deep rooted, sexist, misogynistic beliefs. Of course, I'm only talking about it in the context of social media where such gender war happen in the real world, such a divide is much less pronounced.

[00:27:29] Manisha: Yeah. I feel like if you're gonna base too much of our responses on social media, we'll really go nowhere because again. It is not just these women who are feminist icons of course, but we need to celebrate their achievements. So, but like, yeah, if we're just gonna base ourselves on social media thing, then it's just becomes,

[00:27:45] Jayashree: but I feel like it's like that entire argument about the good Muslim, it's like how everyone is very happy celebrating a PG Abala because he fits into the kind of narrative of being a good Muslim who contributed well to his society and who also had held a lot of Hindu [00:28:00] beliefs in how he lived and so on.

[00:28:01] Jayashree: And he was a great person. Yes. But also he fits into that box. And I think the argument here, and I don't know if I agree so much because yes, I agree. It's all sort of driven by social media, which is not really what factor, but it is that these are the definitions of good femini or safe feminists for us to celebrate because they're not really like pushing us into something that is more inconvenient.

[00:28:25] Abhinandan: They're not subversive. They are the more, yeah, they're not subversive, accommodating, and more, you know, within the order we. That's why

[00:28:34] Manisha: Anonymous says recent PK interview. I generally appreciate your journalistic rigor. This conversation focused more on challenging his ideas and engaging with them constructively.

[00:28:43] Manisha: Much of the questioning appeared to revolve around why his solutions can't fix the entirety of the problem. His approach of piloting small measurable initiatives for the poorest majorities, both pragmatic and necessary, and the crux of the counter-arguments seem to be, why not do these for everyone?

[00:28:58] Manisha: Given how little progress [00:29:00] throwing money at the problem has produced. His focus on smaller outcome-driven experiments deserves fair engagement because he's willing to discuss concrete solutions, he seemed to face a higher threshold of skepticism than most politicians. He may have had a better interview if he'd simply hand waved away the question issues, and that shouldn't be the outcome.

[00:29:17] Manisha: That said, I deeply value news, laundry's commitment to independent journalism and critical inquiry. BA says, as a decade long subscriber, I wanted to share my thoughts on Vasu's interview with retired justice. While Vasu is an experienced journalist, I felt his approach was too combative, which can make interviews defensive and less forthcoming.

[00:29:35] Manisha: Reminds me of Katha. I don't understand the widespread celebration of the interview. Vasu didn't expose the chief justice. The rationale behind the judgment was not spoken aloud, but obvious. Expecting a different judgment like equal land distribution or museum seems unrealistic. That would've prolonged the dispute.

[00:29:53] Manisha: The judgment to hand over land to trust was pragmatic. Aiming to resolve a longstanding issue as Josie said that it was [00:30:00] merely an unarticulated explanation by justice. I'd love to see more in-depth interviews by N L's own team rather than celebrities. This can strengthen NL brand. Please try not to take your journalistic and business decisions to cater to echo chambers and neoliberal subscribers.

[00:30:16] Manisha: Okay, noted. Harry Singh says hello. I might have missed a nuances discussion on gender diversity issues that was being talked about sometime back in this show, but that's okay. I'm writing to recommend the book Adaptable by Herman Pon Ze, specifically chapter seven to any of you still interested in learning more on this topic.

[00:30:36] Manisha: This is a great book that talks about a fascinating body in a layman friendly language while Chapter seven focuses on gender diversity. The rest of the book is a good read as well. Great. We shall read it.

[00:30:46] Abhinandan: Thank you, Harry

[00:30:48] Manisha: Rahul City has also written on on the Gaza episode. Uh, this episode was quite disappointing on two counts.

[00:30:53] Manisha: If you quote biased Western mainstream media, then you should expect them to do the same for Indian News. There are others like Breaking [00:31:00] Point, Glen Greenwald Drop Side, which are subscriber based. Similar to News Laundry. Dr. Jangi should have disclosed all his conflict of interest while painting a false, incomplete picture of the situation.

[00:31:11] Manisha: He did say he's a professor. He was a professor at the university. Then I think

[00:31:15] Abhinandan: some of them that he, he had done a study that was funded by, I mean, I don't know.

[00:31:19] Manisha: K Jeam says, whenever the discussion turns to Israel and Gaza, Abend somehow manages to throw sand in the wheels. Contrary to his view, the real counterpoint to Western mainstream media is in random social media chatter or TikTok clips, but independent digital outlets like Gray Zone Intercept, Mando Breaking Point Drop Site News, Katie Harper show electronic ADA Lamont diplomatic.

[00:31:44] Manisha: These platforms effectively challenged the propaganda pushed by the N-Y-T-C-N-N-N-B-B-C as for the professor from Jindal. His affiliation make it clear where his views lie, even so his remarks on Zionism are truly worthy of the a DL. On a positive note, it's [00:32:00] always a pleasure to hear Shaul Jehu Manisha for their thoughtful insights.

[00:32:03] Manisha: My observations aren't casual. They stem from detailed analysis link below. Okay,

[00:32:08] Abhinandan: point taken. Jerome, we.

[00:32:12] Manisha: Says Hi NL. Team I'D earlier written about reordering my subscriptions and wanted to suggest a simpler fix. When complimentary subscriptions are gained through NL sen, could they be issued as vouchers that I can apply when needed instead of being auto queued in the pending subscription list?

[00:32:28] Manisha: Right now my pending vouchers are valid till March, 2027 and my TNM NL subscription is cured. After them a few times I've forgotten to subscribe and the pending ones got auto activated. I'd rather pay when I can and save the complimentary ones for a rainy day. What a lovely subscriber.

[00:32:43] Abhinandan: Good point. I'm just gonna such a suggest that to a subscription team.

[00:32:47] Abhinandan: Thank you ma'am.

[00:32:49] Manisha: Rather pay than use.

[00:32:51] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[00:32:52] Manisha: This is frustrating. 'cause every time I contribute to N lna, new subscriptions get queued and applied before those, I actually, I've actually bought, I, I'm [00:33:00] also not comfortable with the suggested workaround of opening a new account and linking my joint membership to it.

[00:33:05] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[00:33:06] Manisha: Okay. We should solve this.

[00:33:08] Abhinandan: Okay. I'm just, I'm on it right now as we speak.

[00:33:11] Jayashree: Okay. So the next letter is anonymous, says, I deeply appreciate the work you do and I've been meaning to raise this for some time. With mu, though, with Muslims being targeted in India and the ongoing conflict in Gaza, it's never felt like the right time.

[00:33:23] Jayashree: I want to raise the repressive treatment of women with an Islam. Will we ever have an honest conversation about it? While all religions have gender related issues, the way Islam is interpreted in many communities results in restrictions and oppression that are particularly severe. I'm not asking for a panel perspective, I'd like to hear from readers, scholars, and community members as well.

[00:33:41] Jayashree: It's time to confront these uncomfortable truths openly rather than avoiding them. This isn't about attacking a faith, it's about critically examining how their interpretations impact half the population. I feel like we had a couple of really good conversations on this during the Karnataka Hija when Meraj was also on the panel.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Abhinandan: Yeah, I remember. But, but I, but the point he is making, I completely agree with it, that, um, it, it's very difficult to have a honest conversation because it's always, you can't, and I, I get the logic of that as well, but it, but that is an unfortunate side effect of, you know, not being able to have that conversation.

[00:34:21] Manisha: And I think one thing I've seen among. Friends, Muslim friends or people that I know is, it's actually a very sticky time for liberals, uh, you know, Muslim liberals. Especially because there is a lot of conversations young people want to have about oppressive practices of their faith or rigid dogma, conservatism, whether it's intermarriage, you know, marrying somebody from outside Islam or dressing up or whatever, or relation to music, whatever.

[00:34:51] Manisha: And you want to have those conversations. But having those con conversations openly means opening yourself up to being [00:35:00] co-opted by people like Naya Kumar and all these people who use it to then Exactly. They say all Muslims. So it's a very bad place for a progressive Muslim today because you have conservatives on your side who just don't want you to come out with criticism or lay it out openly and then.

[00:35:17] Manisha: You have to be careful because on the other side there are people who wanna just paint you in a certain way and you know.

[00:35:22] Abhinandan: No, and

[00:35:22] Manisha: it's a difficult, so it's a very tricky time. It's a very,

[00:35:24] Abhinandan: it's and it's a difficult one to be and it's

[00:35:25] Manisha: suffocating.

[00:35:26] Abhinandan: And I think that, so I, I dunno what the solution is. I mean, I, I understand why people are a little, you know, wary of having a conversation.

[00:35:34] Abhinandan: But I had written a piece a long time ago why I agree with Bill Ma and Islam, and that was in context of a particular debate here. There is data on Sharia,

[00:35:44] Manisha: I

[00:35:44] Abhinandan: think. Yeah, there is data, there are countries that, the number of, I've put a map there, how many countries became Muslim majority and embraced as Sharia and how many of them want to kill homosexual?

[00:35:56] Abhinandan: Now you cannot pretend that doesn't exist. Of course it's not for, but the, [00:36:00] and people who've supported news laundry for a long time they mailed me them. Some of them were hurt. I understand. But you can't pretend it doesn't exist. It does exist. I mean, a country that was moving towards a progressive view of Islam, I think, what was Indonesia, Malaysia.

[00:36:17] Abhinandan: They've started moving backwards. One island of that has embraced Aria. Hmm. It's so, I just think you can't pretend it doesn't exist. He does. So there's a problem. I mean,

[00:36:27] Manisha: I think in India, one public personality is always doing this. Like he'll always, yeah. Critique. And I think it's good to understand that his criticism comes in good faith.

[00:36:36] Manisha: Yeah. It's not like a Tarik fat who will go to Z News and say

[00:36:43] Manisha: like, he'll just turn it into something so bad. So I think we should also make a difference between good faith. Bad faith criticism.

[00:36:48] Abhinandan: Yeah. Arguments. Correct.

[00:36:49] Jayashree: Oscar. Oscar says, let's address some biases from episode 5 5 9. This is the Gaza episode. He says, so Hasani pointed out, the Taliban minister accepted the women's education as not [00:37:00] haram, but the panelists linked Islam to Taliban actions.

[00:37:03] Jayashree: Islam promotes the education of all genders and heights. Would you link the government of India's education budget reduction to Hinduism? Number two. Dr. Kinvara should call out loud the names of everyone killed by Israel in the last week. Number three, forget forefathers in history. We are accountable for our own actions.

[00:37:19] Jayashree: All able Israeli citizens mani serve in the IDF unless they reject. Number four. When armed resistance to foreign occupation is acceptable In international law, lasting peace needs the rejection of hate and violence. And five, all countries have dress codes. Iran is enforce Islamic law, requir women to cover their hair in public.

[00:37:39] Jayashree: But everyone has freedom, religion, education, career. Iran is a friendly bricks member, and India has invested in the shaha port. US' actions are hostile to both nations.

[00:37:49] Abhinandan: Noted.

[00:37:51] Jayashree: Yeah.

[00:37:51] Abhinandan: Although, I mean, I,

[00:37:52] Jayashree: Iran doesn't have freedom, but yeah, I don't see, I mean, I

[00:37:55] Abhinandan: don't, I think that Iran thing is a bit of a stretch.

[00:37:56] Abhinandan: But anyway,

[00:37:58] Jayashree: I can't tell if he's being tongue in cheek

[00:37:59] Abhinandan: though. [00:38:00] Well, the rest of them seem, yeah, being honest

[00:38:04] Jayashree: and has sent a long letter. So unfortunately, it is an AI summary of it. He says, your team has a longtime subscriber admire your work. I must offer constructive feedback on the Hafta episode, on the Gaza discussion.

[00:38:17] Jayashree: It overly focused on Hamas' violence. Its sidelined Israel's disproportionate war crimes, settler violence in Gaza and the West Bank since the 1948 Nakba and decades of ide, I've been an non SEC's analogy to the US Civil Rights movement was poorly informed. Structural racism, persisted post-slavery via resistance, not oppressor.

[00:38:34] Jayashree: Conscience non-violence requires humanity, which is impossible, amid Carla's salvation policy. And he cited the source. Dr. Vera sounded like an Israeli apologist. Echoing Oslo admits ignoring Palestinian voices. He's given a source. Your antisemitism take lacked nuance and he's given a source. Jhi showed moral clarity.

[00:38:56] Jayashree: Please research topics and guests better. There is no [00:39:00] source for JY showing moral clarity because she's right here in front of you. So I'm pleased.

[00:39:05] Abhinandan: Point disagree with much of what you're saying

[00:39:08] Jayashree: actually says D Team, this is also on the Gaza episode. The expertise felt like pro-Israel propaganda lacking balance except for Sri whose critique was dismissed.

[00:39:18] Jayashree: Aand rebuttal Miss the mark. One Nazi rallies in the West don't justify the uprooting of Palestinians for Europe's guilt. Israel's exists, but via at their expense. His India Muslim invader analogy, inverted Sri's point, A secular one. State Palestine mirrors equal rights. India, even if aspirational, Dr.

[00:39:36] Jayashree: Jan's Hamas dug its own grave claim, got no pushback. Ignoring Israel's role in fostering Hamas by Netanya Hu's. Admissions to block a one-state solution. West Bank settlements persist without Hamas. And what's the justification after 70,000 Zen deaths labeling? Israeli genocidal is overdue is Indian.

[00:39:55] Jayashree: Islamophobia hunts Muslim villains, but Israel's actions fuel antisemitism by [00:40:00] conflating Jews for the state endangering global Jews.

[00:40:04] Abhinandan: Yeah, I agree with your last point, Akha. I've mentioned that, but I don't see why you cannot have that position and the position that. Um, you know, it's not as, that point is a black and white point.

[00:40:18] Abhinandan: The rest are not. For example, I don't, I don't see how Palestine mirrors and equal rights India, I mean, have you read the charter of Thomas who controls most of Palestine? I mean, I, I don't understand where that comes from. So are we saying Hamas is a secular organization? That, that advocates equal rights for all?

[00:40:41] Abhinandan: I think

[00:40:42] Manisha: he means Palestine, not Hamas,

[00:40:43] Abhinandan: but Hamas controls most of Palestine. What is that? Gaza? I mean, so like when we say Israel today, some can say not all. Israelis. What does that even mean? Who controls Palestine?

[00:40:54] Manisha: P, l and step. So depends on what time

[00:40:58] Abhinandan: talk. Now, today, [00:41:00] can anyone say Hamas is an equal rights organization?

[00:41:04] Abhinandan: See, I think in this debate, one can say anything. That's what this debate has come to. Could we though? How can.

[00:41:13] Manisha: Secular one State Palestine. I think he means that if there was no Israel, but Israel Palestine together as a secular state where Israelis could also live, Palestinians grow. I think that's what he But

[00:41:23] Abhinandan: But that has been the position of some Israeli politicians also.

[00:41:26] Abhinandan: That's not,

[00:41:26] Manisha: yeah, yeah. Yeah. And

[00:41:27] Abhinandan: that is a position that's been shared by many people historically.

[00:41:32] Jayashree: Oh, Abu says last week, Mr. Binnan side of Israel doesn't have the right to exist. It's like Indian Muslims don't have the right to exist, stirred

[00:41:39] Manisha: up

[00:41:39] Jayashree: the

[00:41:40] Manisha: S nest.

[00:41:40] Jayashree: Correct me if I'm wrong, we, Indian Muslims didn't come from Arab or Persian land.

[00:41:44] Jayashree: Our great-grands, I don't know which generation converted to S Islam, but they were Indian. On the other side of your opinion, Zionists were not in Palestine. They came from other countries, take the home of Palestinians, expelled them, took their land and killed them. And then Palestine started to move to [00:42:00] Gaza.

[00:42:00] Jayashree: Gaza as a refugee camp. I want your opinion on Kashmiri pundits. What do you think Mr. Ab, should they return to their homes in Kashmir or should they live like Palestinians in refugee camp?

[00:42:10] Abhinandan: I think they should return to their homes in Kashmir, uh, Mr. Sidiki, but you may have read much of the history, their homes occupied by their neighbors who are not Kashmir pundits, and the neighbors were part of the mobs that pushed them out, and today they're too scared to go back.

[00:42:29] Manisha: Also, Indian Muslims are not, not all of them were, I, firstly, the idea of India didn't exist then. So it was a melting pot. A lot of us came from a lot of different regions, central Asia, uh, Iran. So it's not as if all of us were here, but, but also here did not exist as we know it today.

[00:42:45] Abhinandan: Yeah, I mean, again, I've already addressed this, so Yeah.

[00:42:49] Jayashree: Pardon. Nik says, dear team, I haven't missed a single end podcast since the years. I always support your endeavors. I have just one, which is [00:43:00] whenever you guys discuss cost related matters like. Chief Justice of India Suicide in Ana. This week I requested you get an SEST or call on the panel. We s have a mental barrier, which deprives us of feeling cast issues.

[00:43:13] Jayashree: I would like to recommend the book, meet the Savanas by uh, Ana to address to understand this.

[00:43:19] Manisha: This book is on my 2026 reading list. I've heard so many good things about it. Everyone who reads it reads,

[00:43:25] Abhinandan: yeah. Lot amazing things about this book. Yeah, good. Also,

[00:43:27] Jayashree: that's a good recommendation too. Yeah. Try and make sure we have a guest who is, yeah, the, it says this is a response to Hafta and South Central Joint episode.

[00:43:36] Jayashree: I find it hard to agree with anyone who says we're doomed. I also find it hard that if I were to consider News, laundry and News Minute as the most innovative news platforms. Are not able to burst the gory media cycle. People forget it was really social media that got Obama second term and the right caught on almost a decade later.

[00:43:54] Jayashree: Your collective needs to sit down and think about how you can take advantage of the present AI hype to scale a product [00:44:00] that burst the bubble of right wing superiority. I don't know how, but I believe you can. The PhD subscribers may have ideas

[00:44:06] Abhinandan: here. You're absolutely right. We will get a full idea session next year.

[00:44:11] Abhinandan: Has already told me we should have that and we'll be getting asking for ideas from you, the subscribers.

[00:44:17] Jayashree: Yes. Next is Samya who says hello. The Intersection podcast with TNM was great. In this age of social media, only sensational content can have large viewership. Example, big Boss. Our country is so diverse that real life issues of one section of society don't bother another.

[00:44:32] Jayashree: In such a case, subscription-based journalism will have its limitations. During BA's time independence was one issue, which united the whole country against an oppressive regime. That is why he was able to touch the emotions of millions of Indians using his journalism. In today's India, it's tough to find such a uniting issue, but I suggest you guys carry on the good work.

[00:44:50] Jayashree: Continue bring out voices of each and every marginalized community. Your job must be to uphold the values of bpu, and slowly the subscriber base will increase. All good things. Take [00:45:00] time to be appreciated by millions. What a heartfelt email. So sweet. Very sweet. PS, what are your thoughts on Phan Ki Can interview him.

[00:45:10] Jayashree: Done that?

[00:45:11] Abhinandan: Your word is our command.

[00:45:13] Jayashree: SE says, hi, team. You are the reason I'm an NL subscriber. Bold and excellent work. Keep it up In half the 5, 5, 6, Puja Pana commented on Indians working abroad as going and taking the easy route in quotes, while she must be widely connected, and here's many experiences.

[00:45:29] Jayashree: This statement is bias, gen, sweeping generalizations, and a misrepresentation of the many struggles abroad that an immigrant has to face. Yeah, irrespective of skill or profession. Hmm.

[00:45:39] Abhinandan: Whether

[00:45:39] Jayashree: in India or abroad, one must work hard, navigate all odds. It's not easy. In fact, it can be a real hard deal to build a life and career abroad from scratch.

[00:45:48] Jayashree: I just want to voice my concerns.

[00:45:50] Abhinandan: Yeah, concerns heard, appreciated.

[00:45:53] Jayashree: Shafi Kamal says, your team, your ude interview is amazing. It even made me renew my subscription, which had lapsed earlier due [00:46:00] to technicalities. I'd love for you to get Prashant ki on. Already done Shafi. We're killing it today. He's speaking to everyone except my favorite news org.

[00:46:09] Jayashree: Please question him. Not on cast or political opponent, but his behalf. Plans and an educated challenge from you could really help people if you've already done it. Apologies. Thank you. It is done. So, yes, very good. Hil says, I agree with AB on the point that we, the urban class, don't want to pay for news.

[00:46:26] Jayashree: That questions just straight away. The public space takeover intuitive for parts is very rampant across all major cities. There are people who say, private public footpath, though SAB, we can't use.

[00:46:39] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:46:40] Jayashree: This sounds scary to me as a concerned citizen. Lastly, I'd like to thank you both for the awesome work and demo and effort you put in each day.

[00:46:47] Jayashree: It gives me hope that the fourth pillar of democracy, though crooked still exists.

[00:46:53] Abhinandan: Thank you, HIL. Thank you for your support. And the only reason it exists is people like you and thousands like you, and also those of you who [00:47:00] give us honest feedback and keep us honest.

[00:47:05] Jayashree: Manan says, hello, team. On the topic of the revival of democracy, I think a point was missed.

[00:47:10] Jayashree: As more and more people get educated, which is happening as slow as it might be, a greater percent of the next generation is educated with every successive generation. Once we hit a tipping point, the revival of democracy will be unhindered. I do believe education will play that role even if education is not superb.

[00:47:27] Jayashree: Even a decent primary education will pave the way eventually. I think the problem though is that this cumulative percentage of. Sort of thing is so, so, so app appallingly slow in India that we are now what, 80, almost 80 years later. And progress is very limited. So

[00:47:44] Abhinandan: also, I think we use the word education very loosely.

[00:47:47] Abhinandan: I think leadership matters. I in fact wanted to do a satirical piece and I wanna discuss with you in the, I don't think in the history of India, and maybe Anand, of course it's subjective. We haven't had as, [00:48:00] what is a word that is, you know, you can be uneducated, illiterate, but still sensible. Like, what do you call someone who is a nutter?

[00:48:09] Abhinandan: Who is like Hil, like the Delhi cabinet right now? Reka Gupta and her six or seven. I don't think Indian, any state, any government has seen a bunch of such buffoons in charge of a state. Have you heard what they're saying about EQI? About qra, about, uh, between the Pavan Burma, that csa, Reka Gupta. I cannot believe they have.

[00:48:38] Abhinandan: Yeah, Verma,

[00:48:40] Manisha: if maintain,

[00:48:41] Abhinandan: no, not just that other stuff. I cannot believe they're in charge of this, the capital of the country, but apologized

[00:48:48] Anand: for the

[00:48:49] Abhinandan: pollution

[00:48:49] Manisha: yesterday.

[00:48:50] Abhinandan: Y no, but some of the positions they take, some of the logic they have. I genuinely believe that they are. They may have degrees, but [00:49:00] this is what, and, and this is why I think this whole logic of Modi's honest mo dude, if this is a team he picks, you gotta judge him by the team he picks here.

[00:49:10] Abhinandan: You could not have picked a more daft bunch more than this between KA mission and all these people. Like had you said, pick the six worst people, this is what anyone would've picked. And they're in charge of the capital of the city, of the country. It's a disgrace. So education is, I think. Irrelevant. Oh, uh, uh.

[00:49:31] Abhinandan: Who was, um, that veteran? Uh, Tam. Yeah, he was not, didn't have formal education. Raji, right?

[00:49:38] Anand: Mm-hmm. Raji. Yes.

[00:49:40] Abhinandan: Raji didn't have formal education.

[00:49:41] Manisha: Raji didn't have formal education. No,

[00:49:43] Anand: no. He saying, but not, no, no. There

[00:49:46] Manisha: was, Raji would've been very educated here, I think. No, you could be educated, but not

[00:49:50] Abhinandan: formal. Um, formal

[00:49:51] Manisha: education.

[00:49:52] Manisha: I think he was formal educator was, I don't know. I'm sure he was, or

[00:49:54] Abhinandan: ra are

[00:49:55] Manisha: you talking?

[00:49:59] Abhinandan: Yeah, sorry. Uh, no, [00:50:00] I'm, who am I? Uh, no. Anyway, I'm just, cam

[00:50:04] Manisha: didn't have a

[00:50:05] Abhinandan: formal education. Formal education. Yeah. I think Kage cam, plan cam. I mean, we've had people who haven't had a formal education, but I've been phenomenally brilliant.

[00:50:15] Manisha: Presidency, college mad, so, no, he had a formal education. He

[00:50:17] Abhinandan: advocate also mage, and probably

[00:50:21] Jayashree: Cam is the one who brought in the midday meal scheme also.

[00:50:23] Abhinandan: Right.

[00:50:25] Jayashree: A says, dear NLT and M, I loved Saturday's. Discussion. I love the spirit, which every person brought. Josie, a quiet sense of optimism from conversations within Dania.

[00:50:35] Jayashree: A politician in the making, sad the everyday matters, and voicing a new India vibes. And mda. What is mda? Boy? Oh God. And Manisha. Embracing technology and understanding that fatigue will catch up to the Indian population. This is the hope and spirit we need. Long time subscriber. I'm the Dallas in all of them.

[00:50:59] Manisha: [00:51:00] Embracing technology

[00:51:02] Jayashree: like an uncle.

[00:51:04] Abhinandan: This is a thanks for coming award. No, I sound like and the best dressed, JE the best, and formed s, the loudest and most obnoxious. Thanks for coming. Mari.

[00:51:18] Manisha: No Alexa, government singer. You just have to praise. Somebody who's come in the government function, but yeah, I just

[00:51:24] Abhinandan: check.

[00:51:24] Abhinandan: Sorry. It is Camra. Camra had little of almost no formal education

[00:51:29] Anand: and spectacular leader Cam Raja. I think I was also a lawyer,

[00:51:33] Abhinandan: a trained lawyer. Right, right.

[00:51:35] Jayashree: Next is anonymous. Long letter again. Sadly, AI has stepped in dear, and our team like to stay anonymous in the H one B debate. The discussion usually centers on innovation gaps in business opportunities in India, but a crucial factor is overlooked, and that is social freedom.

[00:51:49] Jayashree: I'm an IOT camp graduate with a PhD from a top US university. I'm now a postdoctoral researcher. I wanted to return to India as a professor, but as a gay man, I can't legally marry or have children [00:52:00] there, whereas many Western countries allow. Both. India Supreme Court recently declined to recognize same-sex marriages or civil unions, and queer couples also lack equal access to adoption and surrogacy.

[00:52:10] Jayashree: The H one B situation is painful. Alternate visas are difficult or lack clear citizenship paths making other countries more attractive. Until India offers equal rights, it cannot realistically expect much talent to return. It's not always about salaries or infrastructure. I would move back in a heartbeat if I could marry the,

[00:52:27] Manisha: not just, uh, I mean same sex, uh, marriages and all, but also I know of interfaith couple.

[00:52:32] Manisha: Who are academics and they feel like coming back to India would be very difficult for them. Very unsafe. Yeah. Neighbors and one of the family also. So even that, you know, the kind of freedom and I mean queer rights, we can't even imagine. We are so far away from that. Yeah. I mean, the kind of freedom that you have to just be is just, we are very far away from that.

[00:52:52] Manisha: Yeah.

[00:52:52] Abhinandan: Forget queer, right sir? We have kids in our family who've gone abroad to study. They [00:53:00] miss home, they miss everything.

[00:53:01] Abhinandan: So

[00:53:02] Abhinandan: there's no way I can come back the way I can live here as a 20-year-old girl.

[00:53:06] Manisha: Yeah. I could never live there. I mean, you always just, so while I'm

[00:53:09] Abhinandan: happy to do my own jdu, poach cooking, cooking, you know, live really on crumbs because you don't have that much money, but the freedom that I have, I cannot live like that.

[00:53:20] Abhinandan: At least

[00:53:20] Manisha: you're right. Why we talk about such difficult things like just being a woman and accessing social space, walking, not worrying what's happening. You know, who's following you, who's doing what is a huge, huge thing.

[00:53:31] Jayashree: No, I mean, and literally it's, it's so horribly recent that we only decriminalized same sex.

[00:53:39] Jayashree: Right? I mean, and I, I remember when it happened. It was what, 2017, uh, when Section 3 77 was struck down. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just check. No, 2018 when it was struck down and then it felt so celebratory at the time, and then it really felt like this is the first chapter towards sort of legalizing.

[00:53:57] Jayashree: There was an

[00:53:58] Anand: interim period, it was just struck down [00:54:00] by Delhi. I caught earlier, but Supreme.

[00:54:02] Abhinandan: Yeah, but the Supreme Court. The Supreme

[00:54:03] Anand: Court, then again, and that

[00:54:04] Jayashree: was a really exciting, sort of monumental moment, even though it took so long for it to even happen. Yeah. But anyway,

[00:54:11] Manisha: and something so basic now, it was criminalizing.

[00:54:13] Manisha: It wasn't even saying you can, you have the rights to look. But anyway,

[00:54:18] Jayashree: AK says also about the H one B. Uh, discussion. He said the discussion was all around the techie world and in the process you forgot there is an uncapped H one B that actually helps universities and national labs to hire the creme de la creme from the world over.

[00:54:32] Jayashree: Mm. We come here to contribute to science and tech development, and when we shine, you cheer for us. However, it doesn't make sense to mock us and saying, face the daily issues back home at this difficult point, and it was in bad taste. Agree with AB then. It's not about patriotism. It's about being free to do the work you want to do with the best of your abilities.

[00:54:49] Jayashree: Yeah. There's a rationale behind this. Yes, but there are real lives at stake here. Thanks. And keep up the good work of subscription journalism.

[00:54:57] Abhinandan: Thank you, Cora, and thank you for subscribing.

[00:54:59] Jayashree: [00:55:00] Herbal says, this has been on my mind since your episode on the emergency. Growing up, I often heard my family say that the emergency was good.

[00:55:06] Jayashree: It was the only time the country was lawful and orderly. But that changed after I listened to your episode and later your Let's talk about Punjab series. Thank you for that. Since then, I've been wondering how do we know what information to trust about any event with the emergency? I want to learn more, but I couldn't find sources that felt impartial rather than pushing one narrative or another.

[00:55:24] Jayashree: Same happens with current events like the late Nepal Pro protests where news, Instagram and Reddit all had different accounts. Even with lada, I've seen conflicting versions. So my question is, what are reliable sources to fact check and verify information, even your podcast without falling into partisan narratives?

[00:55:40] Abhinandan: Well, this question is asked every place, I think any of us speak, and there is no clear answer. It's like, it's like you just with experience, you figure you sift what could or could not be inaccurate, and you go with. Credible people, credible organizations whose word you think is a more rational, [00:56:00] reasonable word, even if it may be biased or prejudiced from their prism, but it'll not be inaccurate.

[00:56:06] Abhinandan: It's, it's like anything you consume. Yeah. It's like negotiating a mountain. People who've done it several times know which rock will crumble, which will not. Okay.

[00:56:14] Anand: So, uh, because I think, uh, a kind of sources which lead, uh, uh, lead you to see something also lead you to unsee something. So that is one problem.

[00:56:26] Anand: Uh, what people, uh, the one solution, I think that you should not be looking for what you want it, uh, to have a factual validity. And, uh, like you have, you should said some. Need for moral clarity or something in a news event, uh, or in studying a phenomenon, I think you have to sack or fire yourself as a humanitarian to have more clarity about a lot of things.[00:57:00]

[00:57:00] Anand: So it'll be regress to say, but someone said it. Uh, and uh, I think that's, uh, to an extent correct, that you have to be a misanthrope to be very clear about a lot of things.

[00:57:14] Jayashree: UD says sincere request. Can the N team give some space to reporting by young independent journalists the gruesome murder of Kar And now Rajiv Prap shows how unsafe India is for them.

[00:57:25] Jayashree: When people like Pja and a have a support base, the young and independent ones have no to stand for them. For example, in Chacha covers the report of the weak. Why not start including these journalists or create a tracker on the website to, for young journalists to update their investigations and threat perceptions?

[00:57:42] Abhinandan: We shall give that suggestion, uh, od but again, it's um, it's hard to identify an independent journalist 'cause they're often very few have been able to, you know, get a platform of their own. Uh, but we mostly discover them through a platform. Right?

[00:57:59] Manisha: Yeah. [00:58:00] And it's, um. It's always often not that simple because people in smaller districts or towns and cities, they may not just be journalists.

[00:58:08] Manisha: They can also, they could be professionals also doing journalism. So often it's not clear what what their religions is are. So I, I don't think it's possible to vouch for journalists like this, but certainly when something happens, we cover it. And for, if we are reporting on different states, then we have a network of journalists that we reach out to.

[00:58:30] Manisha: Um, you know, so we give freelance work like that. But having a tracker, all that requires a lot of investment into being sure of the journalists credential. Yeah, that's also a big challenge.

[00:58:41] Jayashree: Salman says Hi. Team is incredible that the Honorable Justice DY Ude went on a promo tour to so many people, but the interview that exposed him the most was the pay world.

[00:58:50] Jayashree: One content is king, and it was a masterclass impatiently doing an interview and letting the subject out himself like that. Now, doubt you all have a range of opinions on the subject, so I won't say more [00:59:00] except that this interview made a superb case for paying to keep news free. I also liked the call for subscription that Rubish made on your behalf in his follow-up video to the interview.

[00:59:08] Jayashree: Congrats again, and much respect.

[00:59:10] Manisha: Thank

[00:59:10] Jayashree: you. Thank you so much. Abena says, I'm from the Northeast and I've stayed in many parts of India. For my job, I'd like to state a few things. In the nineties when insurgency was at its peak, he would sing Bengali and Hindi songs in Be Who Functions in spite of the use of Hindi and Bengali being bad by Ulfa, he had an opinion in political issues.

[00:59:28] Jayashree: Unlike most celebrities, he openly opposed the ruling government and the CA issue. I'm Bengali, but the pain I feel on his death is the same as any other Samis because he was far above caste language of religion. I hope his life and work would make us a good human.

[00:59:43] Abhinandan: Yeah. Um, the more I hear about him seems like a really remarkable guy.

[00:59:47] Abhinandan: Sya

[00:59:48] Jayashree: says. And again, this is a, this is not an ai, this is an AI summary, uh, on Haftar. During the discussion on the 70-year-old woman being deported from the us, [01:00:00] AB then remarked everything is now peaceful, so she should have come back earlier. It felt quite callous in the context of asylum seekers. Asylum isn't totally about escaping political turmoil, also about deep trauma and real threats to life.

[01:00:12] Jayashree: Even if things calm down years later, many may not want to return to the source of that trauma. Also, being with our immigration papers in the US is a civil violation, not in itself a criminal offense. Detaining and constricting people for that is deeply problematic. Smer, in conversation with Kunal Kamra had powerfully described the Indian states cruel treatment of Rohingya refugees post pama.

[01:00:32] Jayashree: That would be important context for a discussion on how India treats immigrants and asylum seekers.

[01:00:37] Abhinandan: So Saja, I agree with you completely on what political asylum is, that if there's a genocide happening, there's entirely what happened in Rohingya. Uh. I just don't think that is what happened in Punjab. So, um, and I think, I think a similar argument was made earlier in the Gaza Palestine conflict.

[01:00:56] Abhinandan: You know, one can say that it is important [01:01:00] that we recognize human rights and human rights are important and then go on to use that first principle, which I'd agree with into something that is not exactly the same. I'm Punjabi, I have family in Punjab. Many of them who are not kh, Dari Sikhs had to leave.

[01:01:18] Abhinandan: Um, and then there was that pushback. I think a lot of people who went there, in my view, don't qualify as political asylum. If you are saying any threat to life is grounds for asylum, then I think that clearly be about a hundred million people in India who had grounds for asylum. 'cause there least those many people who are, whose lives are a threat outta the 1 million that we have.

[01:01:43] Abhinandan: I just think when you're making policy. Uh, I, I don't see how you can brush it, because if you defend that, then where's the line? That's all I was saying. I I'm not saying that it's okay to constrict her. In fact, I said in the very same thing. Now that's a classic strawman argument. I say it's horrible how they treated her.

[01:01:57] Abhinandan: They didn't look feed her. So to [01:02:00] you to say that, that is the same as saying that. Sikhs who went there, you know, in the nineties, are not legitimate political asylum seekers. I think that's a dishonest argument. They're not the same thing. And I didn't say that.

[01:02:13] Jayashree: Sheena says, I love the former CJs interview.

[01:02:16] Jayashree: I'd like to hear an and resident's opinion of the interviewee's responses from a legal perspective. She knew us and Jane did well overall, but personally, I would've preferred a more Mehdi Hassan style, such as I'm not letting you move forward without a clear response to my last question approach, especially when it came to his obfuscation over the lack of evidence to support his original act of desecration theory.

[01:02:36] Jayashree: I'm assuming the former CJ is trying to sell some books at this point in time, but I'm always curious why people's subject themselves to potential humiliation and as friendly media galore to have lollipop interviews with an

[01:02:49] Anand: No, I have not watched that into interview,

[01:02:52] Abhinandan: so, but on the media sun style, I think some styles work in certain environments, a certain context, some don't.

[01:02:58] Abhinandan: For example, I think. [01:03:00] The best interview of Jeha ever done by anyone is not a journalist. It is who? Sims Al. And that's purely because gel was, did not have a guards up while talking to sim and therefore she beared a soul. She'd never do that with a, so I

[01:03:14] Manisha: guess she was friendly with a, like sim also kind of

[01:03:17] Abhinandan: also feel safe.

[01:03:18] Abhinandan: No, but

[01:03:18] Jayashree: she felt comfortable. You could tell that she just felt comfortable in that interview and, and see in this Mary Hasan approach, wouldn't have worked on Chand truth. I don't think it was a, I think you need to know your audience. The pan says some thoughts if, 'cause this is on the Nepal, um, thing. I think he says, number one, if Nepal is an inclusive society and no minority religion to demonize, what are the diversions that the elite used and why is there so much pent up frustration, the discussion missed the youth unrest in many neighboring countries.

[01:03:49] Jayashree: Is there a South Asia thread? Number two, how will India use this opportunity to correct past attempts to muddy and how will it play in India? Number three, the size of India shouldn't make [01:04:00] us complacent. Studies have shown around 3.5% of the streets can change regimes. What do we need to do differently?

[01:04:05] Jayashree: Number four, Manisha I think is closest to Gen Z. Good Lord, I'm not guys, I'm younger than Manisha has been to Nepal 10 days back. I've read the Napal 10 days back. So calling her thoughts romantic sounded dismissive to me. Gen Z is also thinking not just about age. I just can't believe that you are now the Gen Z member of our

[01:04:27] Manisha: panel, the the most unlikely Gen Z member.

[01:04:31] Jayashree: And finally, Anki. My understanding is not no rule of law, but rather where everyone is evolved to self govern. Mm.

[01:04:40] Manisha: So they may not, Nepal may not have a religious, uh, this thing, but there's a strong mahi pari divide, like that's a big part of what defines their politics, and it's very diverse. I mean, ethnically, it's very diverse.

[01:04:52] Manisha: So there's quite a competing interests.

[01:04:54] Jayashree: Another email from Manan about, uh, nuisance life hosted by Manisha, [01:05:00] the Nepo angle of politician class and big business and the unavailability of jobs and decent living standards for the population at large. This is essentially exactly what the caste system is. No one's saying it, but it's not a coincidence that the only Hindu country in the world, Nepal, has this inequality.

[01:05:16] Jayashree: It's systemically designed, and we call it the caste system. I feel it's important to call this out. It's important to call it the caste system every single time, anywhere if you want to remove it. Absolutely. That's how America got rid of slavery. Every instance has to be called out. The system has to be highlighted every single time.

[01:05:32] Jayashree: I'm sad that the media and even protestors are not calling it what it is.

[01:05:37] Manisha: But Nepal is not the only country with such inequality. There are many in the world. So I don't know.

[01:05:44] Jayashree: I guess you're saying that in every con sort of example of the caste system at work, it should just be called the caste system at work, which is true.

[01:05:51] Jayashree: I mean, I do think people use euphemisms about it a lot. We'll refer to class and all, a lot of times when actually we're talking about cast,

[01:05:57] Manisha: but you had a lot of upper cast, gen Z kids [01:06:00] protesting in this, so it's not a, I mean, there were a lot of upper cast in the protest, so I don't know what they were.

[01:06:06] Manisha: It did, it was a class issue for sure. I don't know if you can mix these two.

[01:06:10] Jayashree: Vivic says he loved the discussion on China with, and would very much love to hear more from him about Chinese culture and day-to-day life of a common Chinese citizen as he proposed. I didn't vote for it to be a Let's talk about thank you for the weekly podcast news.

[01:06:23] Jayashree: It's become my weekly habit and a wonderful source for recommendations. On the tech side, I find news winner to have a smoother app experience the news laundry. Maybe you could just collaborate the tech teams and improve the news laundry app. Just some constructive secretism nee should be so thrilled that someone, but we do have the same

[01:06:40] Abhinandan: backend.

[01:06:42] Abhinandan: How's this possible? Well, we tell nee this. Okay.

[01:06:47] Jayashree: Also, the tech teams are combined essentially now. So

[01:06:52] Abhinandan: yeah, taking that step.

[01:06:55] Manisha: Mala says, hi, team, love your work. As always, request to open and then please stop interrupting. Aand when he's [01:07:00] speaking. For the last few appearances, he's barely been able to get an award in as a regular list.

[01:07:04] Manisha: Now always wait for him to be on the panel as he usually provides good history and context for the topic at hand. Been disappointed at his sidelining these past few weeks you have on the panel.

[01:07:14] Abhinandan: You have something to say about that, please say something or I'll look bad.

[01:07:19] Anand: I, I am happier if I am made silent.

[01:07:23] Abhinandan: Dude, you make me look really bad. Look, now I've seen this. See this? This is

[01:07:27] Manisha: what you've run to the van out. This is

[01:07:30] Abhinandan: I'm being made a villain.

[01:07:31] Manisha: Madan says, regarding

[01:07:33] Abhinandan: Madan.

[01:07:34] Manisha: Madan. Mad Shama. Mad. Mad. Shama from the Himalayas, praying to the Ganges. I've used all the, all the words that I know regarding Aden's article about us tariffs.

[01:07:47] Manisha: He mentioned about India's ability to absorb pain. It is not true that this pain is mainly born by the poor or maybe poor of India. I used to enduring pain. I used to enduring pain all the time.

[01:07:58] Anand: No, but eh, [01:08:00] um, I said that Indian foreign policy got its independence, um, against Western pressure by enduring pain.

[01:08:09] Anand: Like in non-alignment was also, uh, an exercise in that. And also this also in the current thing. I think a lot of India's stand against status is in the name of the poor farmers. That, that, so you cannot argue that it is, uh, uh, to make poor suffer because, uh, we are, uh. Working against, uh, imposing tariffs against agricultural products.

[01:08:40] Anand: So, and we are linking it to the welfare of farmers, Shivan,

[01:08:45] Manisha: SHA, and lt. Great work. Ab stop indirect interrupting everyone, especially Anand

[01:08:50] Abhinandan: A please says something. Now you have to

[01:08:53] Manisha: long time subscribe, 4G Uh, Raman is not here, but we'll read it out. Thank you Ramsa, for your comments. You don't speak much on [01:09:00] episodes, but this time your remarks on Gen Z protests and Nepal were very insightful.

[01:09:03] Manisha: The point that the media romanticizes such events is so true, and I agree that there's more to this than meets the eye. Your humility in saying that you don't have the necessary sociological context in spite of being such an experienced media leader was refreshing and humbling. Please participate more during half the discussions.

[01:09:18] Manisha: Thank you N-L-T-N-M for all the work you do and all the best for Media Rumble. It's happened. It was great and you should see us next year again. Um, says, apologies. This is the second letter for the same podcast, so it's fine if this is pushed out. With regard to tariff discussions, I have two points.

[01:09:34] Manisha: First, pertaining to the very Congress style narrative of Nru getting betrayed by Z in la, are we finally seeing more the matchup to nru with Trump being his ally can export subsidies like China mitigate, especially when India bracket ban has benefited immensely from lower cost fuels without any impact on consumer price, on a then equipping on par.

[01:09:57] Manisha: I believe the apex power trip unique to India [01:10:00] is how you are treated When in jail example, Maru Shema and all the notorious Dawns, this is what differentiates power from money. And Amani will do everything to stay out of jail, but a jail will break him. A truly powerful, the truly powerful make it their specification.

[01:10:16] Abhinandan: Mm, what

[01:10:16] Manisha: a good observation. That's true. It's

[01:10:18] Abhinandan: a vague

[01:10:18] Manisha: Okay. Jail make say, and then every now and then a story will leak out of posh. Activities happening in jail, and then we are all shocked. Aha says, Hey, I've been slowly easing my family into listening. Hafta. I do it by playing it in the car. Couple of weeks ago, my mom and I were listening.

[01:10:38] Manisha: When AB then mentioned his age, she instantly went, no way. He doesn't look like he's in his fifties. I thought he was in his thirties. Thank you guys for making HTA more interesting. Every episode,

[01:10:47] Jayashree: gen Zs all around, my God. Next he'll be twenties. Yeah,

[01:10:53] Manisha: simmer says, I love nuisance. And the idea of media reporting on media, a similar concept that I follow for news in the West is ground news.[01:11:00]

[01:11:00] Manisha: I wonder if you have comments on how they classify blind spots for left and right leaning news outlets. I'll check this out. I haven't checked it out. I've heard about it, but it sounds interesting and if something similar is even possible in Indian context, actually be very good to classify blind spots.

[01:11:15] Manisha: For both left and right media, but first we have to classify left and right, which itself will be a task. It. We try to do it with the bio scope. It's very difficult though. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. You can do it, but I don't know if we can do it. It also might be interesting to have their team on h the episode. Nice.

[01:11:28] Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

[01:11:30] Manisha: Mother says, in reference to HHA 5, 5 3, why not consider a, let me explain series on China. So

[01:11:36] Abhinandan: fast country that be, yeah. We'll have to see some aspect of

[01:11:39] Manisha: China. We can do, yeah, but

[01:11:39] Abhinandan: I mean I, I think uncovering China, getting four or five China experts is a very interesting, interesting, because now it's a us different aspects of China because you're such a complicated relationship with them,

[01:11:49] Manisha: and I'm so curious.

[01:11:50] Manisha: Also, actually, it'd be very. Interested in listening to Manisha Anan

[01:11:53] Abhinandan: Speak, let deflect the villain. Well done. [01:12:00] Very well done. Well, played

[01:12:02] Manisha: well. Ju says Hi. And then hope you and team are well. I was 22 years old when India against corruption started and supported the same Bindu, Genman, et cetera. Brenda, I have this question for you.

[01:12:12] Manisha: In hindsight, don't you feel disappointed, cheated in Ari? Don't you think he was a sto of RSS and made us believe that what he is doing for the country? I do feel now because in the last 11 years we haven't heard anything from Ana, doesn't he? Has he found anything wrong? Words speaking, standing up for, in the last 11 years?

[01:12:29] Abhinandan: Well, actually he did, uh, announce that he's gonna fast onto death. I, he was news for four days ago. He said if a Loyo is not appointed in Mara, he will fast unto death. Uh, I've, I've articul my view. Joel, I'll maybe write a book. Maybe in 15, 20, 30 years. Completely honest one, but I've said here I was never a fan of ans even before the Al Movement, but the first time I met him with Arwin, I think in 2003 or four, uh, Arwin used to really consider him a master of [01:13:00] sunshine laws.

[01:13:00] Abhinandan: So, and I had gone to his village, um, and I was quite amazed what he had done there. But I wasn't a fan of the man. But just so you know, Anana was a mascot of the movement. He wasn't the architect of the movement. And no, I don't feel cheated by Anana because it was Vin and Manish and everyone's decision to make him the mascot.

[01:13:19] Abhinandan: He was not the leader in any practical way.

[01:13:25] Manisha: Says since my last few, since my last week, hafta was left out. So writing again. Is tu a top down issue? Okay.

[01:13:34] Abhinandan: Yeah, basically I think, uh, man says Manas was very keen. Is Tu

[01:13:39] Manisha: bottom up?

[01:13:39] Abhinandan: We had said that it's, but, but Manas is not happy with our discussion. Sorry, Manas will try to do better, but we had two or three discussions on it, but.

[01:13:46] Abhinandan: It's,

[01:13:47] Manisha: yeah, we've had many sense,

[01:13:48] Abhinandan: but it's too vague. Yeah, that's the only thing. But I do, I don't think there are two manes liking or, I mean, it, it hasn't, we haven't gone over it in the granular fashion. And Manas may like,

[01:13:57] Manisha: I think the one with NI was quite [01:14:00] nice actually. Manas, please write

[01:14:00] Abhinandan: in and tell us if the one, 'cause there's very old male.

[01:14:03] Abhinandan: Were you happy with the one with Nathan and Tan on Ri? Let us know if, if that kind of passed the past Must.

[01:14:09] Manisha: I mean, they, Singh del says, AB then was talking about uncertainty and ambiguity around Trump's foreign policy. It could be judged from the fact that Russian diesel sold to Ukraine via India.

[01:14:19] Manisha: Ukraine imports 15% of Russian diesel through India. So by the logic of Trump and Navarro, Ukraine is helping Russian War efforts against Ukraine. What madness is this A guest for? A question for panel. Let's see if it can help us determine which is the best newspaper to read, which, whichever newspaper I pick, I see Moori glossed all over when I start feeling nauseated and then I start feeling nauseated.

[01:14:41] Manisha: Which newspaper has the best opinion writers according to you? Lastly, after seeing the Gaza Genocide live streamed as the UR while Defender of Morality Democracy, that is the West lost all moral ground to lecture global south. I think Global South Nepal, we don't wanna be lectured anymore, so that's a different story altogether.

[01:14:58] Manisha: But I, um, [01:15:00] was actually discussing this with AB today. I, I have really, um, I have really liked reading Times of India and its coverage on pollution the last two months, I think every. Day they have a story that's worth reading.

[01:15:12] Abhinandan: They have two pages on and even Express has one full page on it every day. Yeah,

[01:15:15] Manisha: and you know, EDS also, I'm finding more to read in TY eds these days.

[01:15:19] Manisha: Sometimes there Rich, there are a variety of opinion makers that they manage to get, which is quite, I would say, read newspapers. Don't be turned off by mo the ad. There will be those, especially during the birthday though, it was a whole giant birthday greeting. But Express Times of India, Hindu, these papers are, they will have, uh, good information reports that could be useful to you for your city and also good opinions.

[01:15:43] Manisha: So read a variety.

[01:15:45] Jayashree: Yeah. See also if you, if even if you get the news online, you read a newspaper, you get so much more that I would never have found if I just got my news on the internet. You know? Yeah. Like even that, that collection of headlines, especially when it comes to City Regional, I'm just not finding, like my algorithm maybe [01:16:00] isn't showing it to me, but I need to read the paper.

[01:16:02] Jayashree: I need to read several papers to get Yeah. Most of it.

[01:16:06] Abhinandan: That hasn't changed my reading the papers in the morning. 'cause it just pure numbers here and no matter how much time newspaper is the strongest. You interrupting me. Okay.

[01:16:16] Anand: I'm joking. Go ahead. I'm just reinforcing you what you are saying. Ing I think newspaper is still the, the strongest product that media industry has.

[01:16:26] Abhinandan: I completely agree. In fact, uh, someone had told me, I think I had quoted this number two, three years ago, I think Times of India has 800 reporters and stringers across the country, across the world. That's an insane number. Do easily

[01:16:39] Manisha: the way they cover city. I mean, they have everything on the city. So, so you, I

[01:16:43] Abhinandan: mean no channel or anything can compete to that.

[01:16:45] Abhinandan: Yeah.

[01:16:46] Manisha: Investigative reporting, yes. Increasingly you won't find that like an RTI investigation on the front does not happen. Fact that you'll not, but you will get good news reporting on what's happening around you. Um, he's written another letter. Why would Trump get [01:17:00] cozy with India when he gets following things from Pakistan?

[01:17:02] Manisha: Pakistan endorsed Trump getting Nobel Prize. Pakistan invested in Trump's cryptocurrency. USA Pampered India. So that one day it'll be, uh, their answer to China. But Rafael getting shot down, shocked the west and saw that India is no match for the West. So better step back. Pakistan has rare earth minerals and it has asked u US C to mine them and keep major share.

[01:17:22] Manisha: USA needs Pakistan to get its arm military equipment that got stuck in Afghanistan, out of Afghanistan. Modi bruised Trump's ego by not inviting him during American president selection campaign. These are things I see that has gotten India. Away from Trump's Americas. Nyak says, hi guys. Fantastic discussion by Ahe Ri, uh, on China.

[01:17:41] Manisha: Please bring him back soon. Also, ab and then please stop interrupting speakers while they're giving very interesting responses, very basic yet insightful questions. Manisha's question, in this case, very basic but very insightful. Please consider doing, please consider doing, I'm getting like the most [01:18:00] boring, like government bureaucratic.

[01:18:01] Manisha: She uses

[01:18:02] Jayashree: technology. She's insightful. My basic,

[01:18:06] Abhinandan: you, you get the thanks for coming along. I sound so

[01:18:08] Manisha: terrible. Fantastic. Discuss, sorry. Uh, please consider doing a separate interview with them. Maybe an episode LT in China. We should do LTA something on China. Yeah.

[01:18:16] Abhinandan: Do LT on China. I've made a note of that. I

[01:18:17] Manisha: really wanna travel to China also now my New Year's resolution is that I wanna visit China.

[01:18:22] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[01:18:24] Manisha: Then I'll make reels from there like Indians.

[01:18:32] Manisha: So PR says, dear and team, keep up the good work and passion for quality fact-based journalism. A few observation on 22nd, August and fifth, Septembers Hth. Shadu was right that one Yuan use in trade has risen, but it's still only about 4.5 far behind dollar euro and yen. Bricks de dollarization faces a big hurdle.

[01:18:53] Manisha: China invests in education and research, but its authoritarian system. Closed economy and media expansionism and ethnic cleansing and [01:19:00] Tibet make it an unreliable partner, especially given its claim over Indian territory. Putin's aggression in Ukraine stems more from his Akaka Russia project than NATO threats.

[01:19:10] Manisha: Eastern Europeans chose the west and the war over expanded nato. The US, despite flaws isn't a security threat and remains vital for India education, tech, and trade. Please do consider a show in Japan.

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