NL Hafta Subscribers’ Take Ep 5: A special feedback episode

In this special episode of NL Hafta , Abhinandan Sekhri, Jayashree Arunachalam, Sumedha Mittal and Anand Vardhan catch up on all the letters that we’ve received from subscribers.

Hafta letters: Spineless strongmen, selective outrage, and the need for a more diverse NL

. We have a page for subscribers to send letters to our shows. If you want to write to Hafta, click here .

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Timecodes

00:00:00 – Introduction

00:03:49 - Letters

01:12:09 - Recommendations

References

Come build the future of news

Jai Bhagwan Goel on issues close to his heart

Us vs Them: The biological basis of bias

Recommendations

Abhinandan

Kohrra

Jayashree Arunachalam

You Wanna Be on Top?

Anand Vardhan

The Internet was an economic disappointment

Sumedha Mittal

Citizen Kay

Same Old News

Produced by Amit Pandey; sound by Anil Kumar.

. Sting: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry podcast and you're listening to nl.

Abhinandan: Welcome to Hafta subscribers. Take the episodes where we address all the emails that have been collected and we were not able to address in the regular haftar. And if you notice, we have changed the format somewhat so that subscribers take becomes more frequent and we can address your inputs, your criticism, your suggestions more thoroughly.

Abhinandan: We have broken up the core Hafta panel into two. So this one has Je Anan, then me, hafta s, and a wonderful colleague who I'll introduce you to in more detail, Al. And the other panel this week will be Manisha, Rama, and Shaul with another correspondent. From the news [00:01:00] laundry team. So, uh, Jesse, I have the listeners know join us.

Abhinandan: Hello? Hello from Chennai. Yes, a ver join us from Delhi. And clearly you can see he's wearing half sleeve shirt, like it's summer time. I'm still a little bit cold. Yeah. For, for oldies like me, we still have a full sleeve. Thick ones

Jayashree: losers,

Abhinandan: but the youngsters are already flexing. Not all, not all. Samantha's also carrying a shawl.

Abhinandan: So she's, so everyone knows Anna, they know Samantha, please introduce yourself to a regular Halal listeners. Many of them may already know you. What are the reports that they should remember you by? Although you have it on AFTA before, I know.

Sumedha: Yeah. A couple of times. I think through my stories on water rolls, that has given me the most joy.

Sumedha: Mm. And I think, uh, with, uh, with those series of stories, we have done something very new in the Indian media ecosystem where we had scrapped the data [00:02:00] of crowds of voters and then found some interesting trends.

Abhinandan: Right. Great.

Jayashree: And may I also point out that she went door to door?

Abhinandan: Yeah.

Jayashree: And did a, it took a lot to do that kind of field.

Abhinandan: So basically she actually, you know, got all the data of these voters and then went to check each house. Is this accurate of

Sumedha: 3,500 voters?

Jayashree: Yeah,

Abhinandan: that's what it takes to report. And I've had a colleague here in the past years who's become a big famous influencer talk show. I don't know who had one said. You know, journalists are so compromised.

Abhinandan: His solution to journalism being less compromised, it should be a part-time job. It's not a full-time job because he thought just sitting pillow and gar on podcast is journalism. That's journalism. Going to all those houses, door to door, seeing if it matches. That's the time it takes. Now you understand why it's easier [00:03:00] for prime time to sit around, get five people shout at each other, rather than go send five journalists on the ground.

Abhinandan: 'cause that will cost five times more. And you'll come with one report and a panel of five shouting at each other. You can fill two and a half hours. That's the economics of news with that. Here's a QR code you can pay to keep news free and support journalism like so has, uh. Now we shall start with the emails.

Abhinandan: We only entertain the emails and feedback of subscribers. If you're a subscriber, mail us at podcast@newsrun.com or just click on the link in the show notes below. A window will open out and you can fill in your comments, your critique, your criticism, your suggestions, your applause are all of the above.

Abhinandan: On that note. Yes. She please take it away.

Jayashree: Yeah. So we have 28 letters.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Jayashree: Which is short and sweet. 'cause I remember one episode where we had 75. So this is not, I think we are being moving through them at a quick [00:04:00] rate.

Abhinandan: No. Which is why we've broken this up into two.

Jayashree: Yeah, well done Team, basically. Okay. So the first letter that I'll read is from ti who says Journeys on Team while listening to s Mina's Point, I agree with this point about trends in Bollywood and also about Bengali movies too.

Jayashree: One thing I observe is that whenever a new movie is announced, or the first look released on social media, a group of people start a negativity. They say the film will flop even if the teaser and trailer is yet to release. And these people love films like Kaby Sing and Animal. I don't know how a group of people like these, like these types of movies.

Jayashree: The last movie I watched was WA two. It's a good, it's a sort of murder mystery genre. Great work.

Abhinandan: So anyone has anything to add? Why? Why is this this sudden backlash against a film before it's released? I mean, I can think of several reasons. Anyone has any,

Sumedha: I feel it's, uh, it's very coordinated and it's, it's very, it's, it's, it's organized to the extent that I've seen that whenever we do [00:05:00] any story, which is critical of Election Commission, the bots who are usually praising movies like Durand and Animal will, uh, uh, will twee my story saying that how good Ganish Kumar is.

Sumedha: So it's organized to that extent.

Abhinandan: Right.

Jayashree: Yeah. My least favorite kind of tweet nowadays is people who will reply to everything saying, grok is a true gr grok. Tell me if this is accurate. And then they'll wait for a chat bot, an AI chat bot to tell them what to believe. So it's a good time to be on social media.

Abhinandan: Do you have a take on this?

Anand: No, ma'am. Obviously, social media has amplified the promotion in different way, and the reverse is also true.

Abhinandan: Mm.

Anand: So, uh, also, uh, a a as if, uh, uh, if you see reviewers a movie, what works for movie or what it is, does not work as if it is a building which has to work. If it is not working, not working means what's the big deal?

Anand: If [00:06:00] it's a movie as if we, uh, it is being said to people that these are the likable things you should like, or these are not the likable things, you should not like means, uh, may maybe because, uh, people are worried about the business of cinema now.

Abhinandan: Yeah. It's, I think it has a lot to do with that. You're

Anand: right.

Anand: Yes. So like, because, uh, uh, which many people, uh, uh, like, uh, in my generation and my father's generation, there was not. Much difference between how people entertain themselves, but it has changed dramatically. Dramatically. Now dramatic. The only change was just a television. They didn't have television in their youthful days.

Anand: We had. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, they also entertain themselves in the same way. But now there are so many mul, there are multiple moods of entertainment. So there is new anxiety about how C [00:07:00] CIMA has to, it has to be something that makes it work.

Abhinandan: Yeah. It's like a very fragmented audience. But you know, on the commercial aspect, and this, I know for a fact now I'm not saying all of it is motivated like that.

Abhinandan: A lot of it is just people have to express a view and that is also a pressure that I think Gen Z has take a position on something. It's, there's certain thing, but yeah, I don't wanna take a position on. I mean, I can think of so many things. I don't have to, I haven't taken because I, you know, I'm not, but on, um, something like, uh, on film and the commercial aspect, what you said, I know that there are people who actually take money to either whip up, uh, you know, organize, choreograph, frenzy or trash a film.

Abhinandan: And this is actually funded by. Um, people from, you know, people who are, you know, rivals, business rivalries. So this happens way more frequently than you actually might imagine.

Anand: And it, it brings a new, you have different kind before even seeing the film. You [00:08:00] somehow think that you have seen. It means because there is a sameness, sameness on promotion to also to a different degree means, right?

Anand: You sometimes feel that, I have seen this movie means there are too many opinions about it, too many images. So, uh, uh, a fatigue develops that, uh, a kind of visual fatigue that, uh, only, only thing you've seen in this movie is four, five scenes more.

Abhinandan: Have you seen anything you liked recently? Ri

Jayashree: No. I've hated everything I've watched.

Jayashree: No, no. I'm lying. I am trying to think. I don't think I've, but I, I kind of agree with what Ranan says, which is that I feel like I haven't actually watched a bunch of recent movies, but I already feel like I know almost everything about them anyway, so that all that's left is just due. Really watch on Scream because all the, everyone is telling me all the opinions, all the scenes people put up like dozens of Instagram stories, which essentially pieced together the entire movie anyway, so I don't think I'm missing much.

Abhinandan: I was saying on off and [00:09:00] Awesome that, you know, I read so many contradicting, um, reviews of Weathering Heights. One being that. Why was it released on a Valentine's, you know, day, uh, weekend when it's, it's not a, people thought

Jayashree: it would be a,

Abhinandan: people

Jayashree: thought it would be

Abhinandan: romantic. It's not a love story at all.

Abhinandan: No, I read it when I was, I think in my late teens, early twenties. So I have a vague recollection of the dark world of Ms. Ha. Um, Ms. Ham Han, uh,

Jayashree: no, Ms. Ham is great expectation.

Abhinandan: Great. Sorry, I'm mixing up. What was her name? Heathcliff and, um,

Jayashree: Kathy. Catherine.

Abhinandan: Yeah. So, so I remember, you know, Heathcliff being this horrible man, but I don't remember it, like what I call it a love story.

Abhinandan: So I've actually started reading, reading re reading Weathering Heights, and after I read, I wanna watch the film and then decided and make up my mind. You've seen any, you like Yeah.

Sumedha: What? Yeah. I, I recently watched this documentary on how the New Yorker was built on Netflix. It, it was released a couple of weeks back,

Abhinandan: which was built on Netflix.

Sumedha: Uh, this documentary On how, what, what went [00:10:00] behind? Uh, the New

Abhinandan: Yorker, New York. Oh,

Sumedha: hundred years. Hundred. Yeah.

Abhinandan: Right, right. Oh, by the way, I watched Cora too. To blown my mind. Really. I haven't seen anything so good in the last two years. Yeah.

Jayashree: Very good. Very intelligent team. Mm-hmm. Okay. Next is Rohit who says, I have a question regarding the strong man phenomenon that I've noticed in people.

Jayashree: They pose a strong mass masculine men, but they're scared when they have to stand up to popular culture or societal traditions. Whether it's a worker or British, or Modi or Trump or China, or even, even Bal types, they become submissive very quickly to established power structures. I've seen this in real life as well.

Jayashree: Many who pose a strong, they're only strong when they bully someone on cast or gender binaries. They wouldn't stand up to their families or their fathers or their societal or family structures, no matter how toxic or bad that is. Why is that? And why do people gravitate to these type of men who don't have a spine?

Abhinandan: Hmm, I'm, I mean, I'm not sure that people gravitate to men without a spine. I think they [00:11:00] gravitate to people for different reasons. But, um, yeah, I mean, there's this wonderful podcast about, uh, I think it's Spain ing A BBC. It was a part of, uh, I recommended once about the brain, we will put the link, uh, which kind of goes by hurt people, hurt people.

Abhinandan: Um, it's like the people who've been raed really badly are the ones who end up ragging really badly. Um, not all, but a lot of them. So, I mean, I think it's true for too many. I mean, any, any take on this letter by Rohith why, why people gravitate towards it? Yeah. Go ahead, Jesse.

Jayashree: See, I feel like you're also culturally co culturally sort of coded to assume that somebody's a leader of their like.

Jayashree: You know, strong and masculine and dominant and defiant and all those angry young man sort of stereotypes. So it's very easy to pretend to be all those things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are actually strong or masculine. Like it take, it [00:12:00] takes nothing for a man to pretend to be a strong man, is what I'm saying.

Jayashree: It's just, it's just posturing. And posturing can mean to anyone. It doesn't mean anything. So it's not very authentic.

Sumedha: Yeah. I also feel the same, that basically they're believing, uh, the brand which is built around them, especially in the case of moi. Like they're believing the PR around him. And I don't think he's actually that strong.

Sumedha: If had he been that strong, I don't think, like, uh, he. I

Abhinandan: didn't, he so afraid to take questions for one. Yeah. I,

Jayashree: which is why everyone keeps saying that A, and I should release the files, right? They're saying that, A, and I has all this footage of Modi and they put it up on Twitter, but we never get the audio because once he, when we hear the audio, he comes off as a little bit, not as, as cool as he would like.

Jayashree: So I think it's that,

Anand: well, I think his question is political also, but general also, also. So my, I think his strength is very contextual in different contracts, different people can be strong and, uh. I think central message of [00:13:00] all annoying people is that why you, why can't you be like me? Mm. So, uh, if I have a particular definition of a strength and I, I will most likely tell other person that that is a strength.

Anand: Mm. But people can have different ideas of a strength. What

Abhinandan: is your idea of strength?

Anand: Um, I said contextual. Yeah. There is no in universal idea, mean just defying somebody in the family may be sometimes just rudeness. Sometimes it may be a strength.

Abhinandan: Sure.

Anand: So it, it is not just,

Abhinandan: but yeah. I think bullying bullies have a kind of consistent nature and that comes from.

Abhinandan: Uh, compensating for being bullied elsewhere. And I think that psychology has been demonstrated really well in several films. You know, the guy who is bullied in office comes back and bullies his wife and kids.

Sting: Mm-hmm.

Abhinandan: The guy who's, there's this really amazing scene. What film was it? It was not really long ago.

Abhinandan: Where this guy is, you know, just [00:14:00] gets, you know, scrap on the road and he gets humiliated. And once that guy walks away, he turns around to his wife and the guy and she says, you know, she asked something irritated and she just slaps her and he realizes he's doing that 'cause he couldn't do it to that guy.

Abhinandan: She realizes. So she has a mix of hatred and sympathy and he has this mixture of. Guilt, anger, frustration, uh, but one thing I said can't stand up to a group of Baal men. My only thing is that group of Baal men will be the biggest weak links and pathetic tomos. If you just take that group and put them in a ratio of one is to four, four being in their favor.

Abhinandan: They only act when they are. One is two 50 is the ratio. And I've seen this, I've asked Mr. Jwan Goyal in the interview on, I agree earlier when he was head of Chef Senna when they were trying to launch in Delhi. I happened to be in Wimpy's that day on Valentine's Day when about 25, 30 or [00:15:00] maybe 40 of these Chef Senna guys came and tried to rough up two three of those guys sitting at Wimpy's.

Abhinandan: 'cause they didn't rise his Delhi. About a dozen guys got up from their tables because they got a lovely chance to show to their girlfriends, look, I'm a deli ka macho guy. These 12 people slapped five of those. But guys, and they fucking ran for their lives. So, so that group of Baal men, in my view, will have the, will be the biggest weaklings and wards out of the entire grouping we are talking about.

Jayashree: Yeah. And which is why I think people like Mohammad Akka like an exception, right? Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it was a strong man who, who, uh, very, a very arche type of, somebody who you believe fits a particular kind of purpose, but he did something very different. It's, it's so, and it's so easy to be in a mob. It's very,

Abhinandan: yeah.

Abhinandan: It's very easy to be in a mob. Correct.

Sumedha: And it's also interesting to see why, uh, uh, recently people like Mama Deepak have come from a certain community, which is EBC. [00:16:00] And we haven't seen such people coming from, we haven't, we haven't seen such cases coming from, uh, people who are from upper cast. So that also makes me wonder that why such in, uh, such acts of courage are.

Sumedha: Uh, shown by a certain community in our society

Abhinandan: and also one, at least for me, one indicator of someone being really cowardly and weak is the range of their behavior difference. Like I've said this before, that of course everybody doesn't behave the same way with everybody. You will not talk the same way to an 80-year-old child as you were to maybe your 50-year-old boss.

Abhinandan: Uh, but of course there gonna be difference. You are slightly more careful while talking to someone who is senior in position or age and junior in rank or age or whatever it is. But how wide apart is that? Is it like to one you talk, I will look at the child. Other thing? Sir. Sir, can I look lick your shoe that range to me, if you can just observe a [00:17:00] person and see how wide that range is.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Jayashree: Yeah.

Abhinandan: You have meta coward. So person who only talks to people, or sorry. And while walking in his country talks, looks at everyone like their worms, that person is actually pathetically weak.

Anand: Mm-hmm.

Abhinandan: Because the survival nature in which he raines in front of internationally, I'm not saying you don't have to be normal, are don't.

Abhinandan: I mean, your teeth should not come out of one mile outside your mouth. Mm. The cons

Abhinandan: think someone should anyway. Hmm.

Jayashree: Okay. San says, although it is wonderful to listen, to, listen, Toto, all the three podcasts could have only STO as an expert on UGC topics as a long-term subscriber and an LNL and TNM ambassador in my circle, I'd like to know your efforts to make your team more diverse and represent voices from marginalized communities.[00:18:00]

Jayashree: It's disappointing to see experts from marginalized backgrounds only when CAST is in discussion. It's as of these experts would not have much to contribute in other social and political topics. Yeah, I mean that's a good point.

Abhinandan: Uh, but if you notice an that, you may have noticed that in this case. But uh, when we talk about pop culture, ARAG is often here not when we are discussing Dali issues.

Abhinandan: Uh, when we put the media bul panels together and we ensure that a foreign policy panel should not only have people who are, you know, quote unquote, I mean, it's not like a woman is only on women's panel. That is only. So we make that effort and it is discussed really often. And while that may be the case in these three, if you just notice 'cause we have 14 years of work behind us, uh, I disagree on that.

Abhinandan: We only have DaLiss when we talk about Dali issues. I personally think that we should be also able to talk about Dali [00:19:00] issues. There's no doubt on the table, but I'm in a minority on that. I, I, I think this over wokeness, one of the things is don't talk about gender if you don't have a single woman on the panel.

Abhinandan: I, I find that silly point of view, but it seems to be an overwhelming me popular point of view. I think you should have representation, but it's not like if you don't, you can't discuss that subject. I think that's also true.

Jayashree: Chen says, hi NL team. I genuinely want to know what's wrong with Rahul Gandhi. It frustrates me.

Jayashree: They don't raise issues that are truly relevant to the public and the Air India crash when 280 people died. The initial report blame the pilots, feels clear. The government and GGCA are trying to save Boeing. Recently, another errand, the pilot fact, the same issue, but DGC has stated there's no problem. My mother, who used to travel frequently by plane now says she's afraid and would rather take a 36 hour train instead of flying.

Jayashree: But what we see in Parliament is Banner saying, Joe. Why step onto their turf when national security is their strongest zone and public sentiment largely [00:20:00] supports them in international matters. It shows a lack of public sentiment. Understanding on Raagas part, I have two things to say. One, I think is that I don't buy into this idea of a conspiracy theory about the Air India thing.

Jayashree: I do think that you should always, and I say this as somebody who criticizes corporates and is seeing conspiracy theories everywhere, I think there is a lot of information that is quite clearly indicating towards, uh, false lying on the pilots in the Air India crash. But again, we shouldn't discuss it because we are not being given copies of the report.

Jayashree: And I think the report needs to come out sooner rather than later. And there's no reason as to why it's taking so long. That's one. Two, I feel it's very easy to blame Raul Gandhi, and I also criticize him for a lot of things, but also. I don't think this is a parliament that is encouraging any form of discussion anyway.

Jayashree: It is, I think, quite simple to say, well, the opposition should raise X and Y and Z, but at any point when the opposition [00:21:00] raises anything, it becomes some sort of farcical imagery that is driven not by the opposition, but it's driven by those in power. So I think we are exp expect, I think we aren't holding the party that is in power to the same standards that we are expecting from an opposition.

Jayashree: It's like we've thrown up our hands and we are saying yes. So the bad people are being bad, but we expect the others to like challenge them on it. I just don't see that as being reasonable.

Abhinandan: So do you think, uh, Rahul, as an opposition leader is completely incompetent? Or is it just that. That's just the ecosystem is such all around,

Sumedha: uh, I think I will disagree with RI on this because I have a, I I'll share an anecdote on, on the day the Parliament had passed the G RM G bill, which is, which has basically overhauled what Monika had done.

Sumedha: And I had met a congress MP that day and he a Dali Congress mp. And he was telling me that, uh, [00:22:00] uh, that he has been, he has been, he has been trying very hard for, to convince congress that, uh, why, uh, they should. Uh, why they should launch a na, uh, nationwide protest against this bill because he felt that this bill will, uh, impact, uh, the dignity of those people, uh, of those laborers, which Monga had, uh, which Monga had ensure.

Sumedha: And he said that it was so hard to convince, uh, Rahul Gandhi and other top leaders in Congress because they could not feel, they didn't have the same sentiment as, uh, be because they be, they, they just couldn't understand, uh, what the dignity of a labor. Means for

Abhinandan: They can't identify with that, that word.

Sumedha: Yeah. And they could not identify with that sentiment.

Abhinandan: Yeah. I think it's a

Sumedha: combination

Abhinandan: of things. Hmm.

Sumedha: Yeah. [00:23:00] And, and if you'll see that, uh, recently, uh, like the, uh, popular narrative which the Congress has built around what, and all of these things, and I, I mean, we cannot say if that has struck with people electro uh, if, if it has helped pe, if it has helped Congress, uh, electorally.

Sumedha: But it has definitely helped Congress to build a popular narrative. And this has been executed by new voices inside the Congress.

Abhinandan: You have a take on this?

Anand: No, I think it, there is, uh, I, as a leader, he has this anxiety about the, his, the nationalist space should not be, I think, occupied by major regional players.

Anand: That was the existential anxiety that Congress had for 10 years. So. That's why, uh, like, uh, capitalizing on minor movement is, is his. But what, what is his, the cultural, uh, projection? I think he comes [00:24:00] across as an amateur Indian.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm. A,

Anand: a a a, a kind of Indian who hugs his sister, uh, in the front of Parliament House cannot be a serious Indian.

Abhinandan: Why not?

Anand: Because that is not, uh, what most Indians do means most Indians don't hug their sisters.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Anand: So maybe it is giving a kind of, uh, message to the Jji who maybe hugging their sisters, but most middle class, lower middle class, and Indians don't hug their sisters and means in the playful way in public that he does.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Anand: Uh, I think that that's a cultural disconnect that. Uh, from a leadership point of view, it's a very minor thing, but, uh, uh, I don't think it's,

Abhinandan: yeah. Most, most Indians should wash their mother's feet and make sure that 25 cameras capturing it is mohi does. Which is true. No one does it. But if that's the, that's what you could emulate.

Abhinandan: No. Sha Kumar [00:25:00]

Anand: what, what I am saying that, uh, it is not one. I'm think the cultural indicator Yeah. That's of immature Indians. What they should not do is not, I think, uh, his, uh, cultural reading of Indians is, it's still immature. Yeah. It, people would not identify with that.

Abhinandan: I think that how he projects himself, I basically think it's two or three things and they can all be true.

Abhinandan: I think he doesn't know how to grab the pulse of the people. And also, one thing we are assuming, and I think maybe this letter is also assuming that the politician sets the agenda. Actually sometimes the politician latches onto something that is. Trending. Trending is a social media word, but it used to, if like Commonwealth Games was not something that was taken up by a political party.

Abhinandan: It was taken up by a series of rts and media took it up and then, you know, whether it was a India against corruption movement and all the laws drawn to it. So it was, now the media does not take up anything. So leaders both set [00:26:00] the agenda and also follow an agenda. Now because the media takeover, Mr. Modi sets the agenda, the media follows that agenda.

Abhinandan: So there is no organic world left. Having said that, I think Raul Gandhi's advisors, and he himself come from in India. Which doesn't get the pulse of the nation. That's why, you know, like that coffee video he put out and some of these things like,

Anand: no, I mean, I think it's, could we misread that? What I am saying, that hugging your sister is not right.

Anand: No, I get it. I, I am giving a different people understand.

Abhinandan: Our audience is smarter

Anand: than that. Sec. A second thing is that, uh, advisors means, uh, he is in, in a position, a space of extreme righteousness means, uh, uh, you have to, uh, people don't want to listen things that I am, the, uh, extreme of righteousness and attacking me to, you have to have a very kind of combative politics, which is, uh, [00:27:00] engaging with day-to-day things.

Anand: Uh, uh, at times he, his speeches and what he gives, like reads like a newsletter often. NGO, like uh uh. Yeah. Yes. Like NGO, the pet peeves of NGOs like this and that. No, uh, there is a, not a larger, of course, all this would have been very different if you was in power. Then many people locate at lot of virtues if you are in power.

Anand: Mm-hmm. If you are not in power, your means weaknesses get exposed.

Abhinandan: Yep.

Jayashree: Next letter is anonymous. Who says great episode 5, 7, 5. But I was shocked no one pushed back, including Team Krishna because I have never heard a more ignorant and unhinged statement as made by Jri. India is more impoverished and divided than at a time of independence.

Abhinandan: Is

Jayashree: you said, is that your

Abhinandan: statement or is that the corollary or the opposite

Jayashree: statement? I had said that Tim Krishna said that when India got independence it was very futile, it was very impoverished and [00:28:00] then changes took place. I said that I would like to point out that one could argue that in many ways.

Jayashree: India could be even more impoverished and inequitable. And then I, but I didn't explain, but I will explain after this letter. So basically a letter says, I think Modi's claim of being non-biological has more basis than this. India independence was divided religiously impoverished, hand to mouth dependence and foreign aid, child marriage, polygamy, no women participation, Lily divided communist insurgency, war with Pakistan, politically divided, et cetera, et cetera.

Jayashree: I was shocked. No one pushed back at such a statement. Even when Aand then mentioned Raja's book. In the same conversation, I'm expecting a response saying Jhi meant something else. And I fundamentally misunderstood nothing against Jhi. I love her passion, but something so unhinged should not be ignored.

Jayashree: That's fair.

Abhinandan: Since J she is here, none of us have to say anything anonymous. She will speak for herself.

Jayashree: I am unhinged, but it's fine. Like I enjoy it. No, uh, yeah. See it. Yeah, sure. I will admit that it is [00:29:00] hyperbolic. Say that in some ways I'd argue India's more impoverished. But essentially I think if you look at the facts, they do speak for themselves, which is.

Jayashree: India's gap between the rich and the poor is measured, literally, it's measurably wider than it was under Colonial rule. I think it was in the sixties, that you're seeing your top 1% controlled 12% or 15% of wealth, and now controls over 40%. If you earn 9,000 rupees a month, currently you are earning more than 50% of your population.

Jayashree: If you're earning 20,000, 25,000 rupees, you're earning 90%, you are earning more than 90% of the population. And I just think that these are very stark numbers that are not reflecting well on a country that is supposedly progressed so much over the decades. And also, if you look at how you're counting the poor, the seventies, 97% of people are under the poverty line, and now it's literally just about 81 or 82%.

Jayashree: And is that real growth is also, look, the way you measure poverty is that you say. For example, the international poverty line has $3 a day, right? And then [00:30:00] in PPP terms, that would be about 80 rupees a day. So it's about 3000 rupees a month. And you're saying the number of people who are earning below 3000 rupees a month has come down.

Jayashree: But if you draw the law, the line low enough, you can always claim progress. I'm, my argument here is that in the years since independence, the 1% is controlling so much more of the income than it ever did. And that is not a measure of a con that can't, that is not a reflection of a country that is a so-called superpower.

Jayashree: So,

Abhinandan: so it is, according to the data, the GI coercion of India, latest figures is about 0.255. And coefficient back in the fifties was 0.371.

Jayashree: Well, there you go.

Abhinandan: So those are, as far as the facts are concerned, que.

Abhinandan: Right.

Jayashree: But, okay.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Jayashree: Next is Rinna, who says showing them [00:31:00] up for who they are. This is the expression that Aben used to describe how he thinks, what he thinks about some of the interviewees on I agree. And how it might come across as cruel to some. Now flip the tables and watch the latest interview of the cast, the bureaucracy by a n and I.

Jayashree: Smitha Prakash, the interviewer's biases were clearly on display, and B, in his usual soft spoken and mild manner and fact-based style gave such a SmackDown of all the right-wing talking points spewed by Smitha Prakash. It was such a polite yet cruel performance that A and I might ban him from the channel for the foreseeable future.

Jayashree: Enjoy watching. I don't think I watched this.

Abhinandan: Have you watched it?

Jayashree: No,

Abhinandan: I haven't either. I'll have a look. Have you?

Sumedha: No. I only watched one Smith Bragar broadcast that was with Cali.

Abhinandan: Okay. How was it?

Jayashree: It was enough that Samantha never watched it again. Yeah.

Abhinandan: Okay. I mean, I've seen some clips of this. One A his style of talking is [00:32:00] really calm and he's very well informed, but I haven't watched the full thing.

Abhinandan: It's 15 minutes long. I'll watch it. Okay.

Jayashree: I did watch that, um, Zaka Jacobs recent interview though, with that Tamo minister, which I just found very annoying to watch. Why? Where he's essentially, um, I think essentially he's saying he was talking to TRB Raja and he was talking about how du like Du is claiming to have all

Abhinandan: 11%, he says 11% growth rate.

Abhinandan: He says, what do you mean some? I believe something. Get your facts

right.

Jayashree: Yeah. He was, it was a very dismissive

Abhinandan: Yeah.

Jayashree: And weirdly contending

Abhinandan: service. He just, he ripped into zaka. Jacob like, yeah,

Jayashree: yeah,

Abhinandan: I saw that. I

Jayashree: think Z used to say that he's thumb, so therefore like he's on your side, but no longer, uh, another letter from the same writer who says,

Abhinandan: sorry, I just wanna say that letters that are over 150 words, we have used AI to get them into one 50.

Abhinandan: 'cause that's the rule we follow on half now.

Jayashree: Yes guys, please help us not use AI and write slightly shorter [00:33:00] letters. So, yes, this is the AI summary of the letter. It says, as we wait for details of the proposed $500 billion US India deal, recent agreements that Trump signed with the eu, Switzerland, South Korea, Japan, and Gulf with Nations offer clues.

Jayashree: These deals promise investments ranging from $200 billion to seven $50 billion into the us, often framed as broad framework agreements or MOUs, slapping lacking specifics. For part countries, such commitments may feel like strategic pressure, but for Trump, they serve as a, they serve a political purpose.

Jayashree: It showcases massive incoming investment to his domestic base. It also reinforces his America first stance against what he calls free rider economies. In reality, many of these headline figures may not fully materialize. Follow through is uncertain. Partner nations may hope the commitments fade over time.

Jayashree: The author half jokingly suggests India could symbolically meet such targets with a far smaller investment. This highlights the skepticism about the seriousness and structure of these grand announcements.

Abhinandan: I would completely agree, but not, I mean, other than just the trade agreements [00:34:00] or whatever, I think we are in an age where Trump, in any case, you can't see any, you can't, can't take anything.

Abhinandan: He says, seriously, he could turn on a dime and we live in such, you know, uh, turbulent times. Even tech as far as technology is concerned, all bets are off. How things would pan out.

Jayashree: Agreed. Agreed. Okay. The next letter is from dti. John is on the team. My email on Hafta 5 75 was on the insecurities of s se, OBCs and other backward classes.

Jayashree: Also the general category people. Some people never see OBCs. Also history were majority Braman who exploited people. I hope you got clarity and good work. Also, when I watched again on Netflix, also when I watched again on Netflix, it's quality which is lower than theatrical.

Abhinandan: I think she may be talking about a, a film we had spoken about.

Abhinandan: Um, oh, she maybe know about Runda actually. Because according to Manisha on Netflix, it seems lower quality. The audio seems all over the place.

Jayashree: Ah, okay. Could be, [00:35:00] yeah. Thank you. Drishti Red Rosa Tale says, this is in reference to the TM Krishna episode. There were moments in the conversation where I was unsure what the topic of discussion was.

Jayashree: Many topics of current significance were discussed, but it was difficult to keep sight of the reason why the segment was included in hta. To clarify, I have great respect for your work and that of TM Krishnas, but the session felt meandering more than usual, and it was difficult to focus. For future sessions, dealing with book launches, et cetera, consider spinning them off to separate interviews or segments.

Jayashree: I use Hafta to stay up to speed on the work week's events, and this hafta was longer than usual. In a world where we're all time poor, a little focus could help both the news laundry team and its subscribers.

Abhinandan: Okay, thanks Red Rosa. Uh, actually that was the week where, uh, j Gunman and, um, Madam whole debate was happening.

Abhinandan: And since he is a kind of expert on that, 'cause his, uh, his book is on that, I mean, not the entire book, but a chunk of that book. And [00:36:00] he has spoken on that as part of his performances as well, we thought. And I, I thought he gave us a lot of insights into that. That's where

Jayashree: Yeah. But I think, I think we're getting two kinds of letters.

Jayashree: The first kind says exactly what this letter said, and the second one is like, oh, we loved it. It was such a different,

Abhinandan: but yeah. But we, but he spoke about more than that song. We also spoke about other general stuff.

Jayashree: Yeah. Amrita says, listening to Tam Krishna has a pleasure, but the critique of elite's lacks a forward looking vision.

Jayashree: Equality is a baseline on its own. It does not inspire. It often asks those who have progressed for varied historical reasons to feel embarrassed rather than involved. The political. Political rights succeeds by offering participation in something larger than oneself, something that can unite rich and poor, even if the outcome is not that on democracy.

Jayashree: Nearly all democratic societies didn't arrive there through democracy. Most organized societies first required centralized power to coordinate and stabilize. It's only later that they spoke the language of democratic [00:37:00] values. In that context, the criticism of current India feels like it feels like demanding the cure.

Jayashree: While refusing a medicine, better medicines should be sought, but until then, the only way we can figure this out is by acknowledging the realities of building organized societies.

Abhinandan: Good letter.

Jayashree: Yeah, it's very well written.

Abhinandan: Very well written, and yeah, the points are rational. Any, anything on this, nan that you wanna respond to?

Abhinandan: Amrita. Okay, thanks, Amrita.

Jayashree: Derich says hello, team Long being a subscriber long enough to say I'd be a millionaire if every time I heard I and then praise the strength of the American system. On hta, I would deposit a hundred pounds in the bank.

Abhinandan: Dollars, pounds, such

Jayashree: pounds. It looks like Orange Man has been able to circumvent everything.

Jayashree: Raju are a hundred percent correct. And then goes on about, oh, but you know in America though, they have all these processes in place. The judicial system works. They have the First Amendment. So anyway, [00:38:00] potshot done. Now it's a real purpose of this email. Seven years ago you published a fantastic piece, byta Go on the US versus them phenomenon.

Jayashree: From a neurological perspective, I'd love to have her and other neuroscientists to analyze how Trump's getting away with all this bullshit from a psychological and a neurological perspective. Why are others really succumbing? I won't be surprised that at the end the conclusion might be the ED animals.

Jayashree: At the end of the day, rules based order is just a myth. This is just an idea. If you think is useful,

Abhinandan: not bad. Maybe you should get in touch with her again. No.

Jayashree: Yeah. I mean, it's been. I can't remember the story

Abhinandan: now. Ask her to, I remember this piece.

Jayashree: She was, I think, COVID time she wrote for us, um, with the science desk.

Jayashree: So

Abhinandan: yeah, around then, I think it's, it'll be an interesting kind of, from a neuro perspective, why do people, there was a very good, uh, podcast when pr, each time I had NPR re recommendation also, you could make some money, uh, on cognitive dissonance.

Jayashree: No Planet [00:39:00] money. The every time you say the words planet money, a ticker goes off.

Abhinandan: Fact. Uh, this, I dunno if this is planet money, but I know it is NPR on cognitive dissonance. That why, uh, brain sometimes will force us to believe something even after there's enough evidence that it's not true. Because, I mean, it's, it's a survival mode kicks in. They were, they said from the point of view of Bush insisting that there were weapons of mass destruction, there was enough evidence that there were none, but he went with it because he had to believe it.

Abhinandan: It, it's a, it is from a psychological point of view, it's true.

Sumedha: I think the psychology is pretty simple. It's just that fear makes you oversee facts. He instills so much fear among his supporters.

Abhinandan: Not just supporters, not just that it's very difficult to, you know, after certain age, it's very difficult to tell someone your entire life has been fighting for a cause That is shit.

Abhinandan: Like if you were to go to someone at, I mean, if you were to go to a [00:40:00] priest of any religion, whether he is the Hindu, Christian, anything. And at the age of 65 70, when he's embraced clergy ship or whatever, father

Abhinandan: or someone who has decided to become a pundit or someone who decided to become an RSS at the age of 15 or 17 and at age 60, I say, dude, you entire thesis of is.

Sumedha: Hmm.

Abhinandan: It's like it's cruel or you know, there is no God. You have to continue to believe. No dude. Otherwise your whole life has been shit.

Sumedha: Yeah.

Abhinandan: What have you done all your life? You try to tell a banker? I mean, I think half these financial, 'cause I have friends who are bankers.

Sting: Hmm.

Abhinandan: The happiest ones are the ones who believe they're doing the god's work as the Goldman Sachs. CEO had famously said, we are doing the God's work after he had fucked over the whole country.

Abhinandan: Uh, the whole world after [00:41:00] Lehman. You remember that? I dunno, you guys may have, yeah.

Jayashree: Yeah. See, people love their delusions. They,

Abhinandan: no, not just love. If you abandon it, you will unravel emotionally.

Sumedha: Well, this to, uh, view of television

Abhinandan: channels in, I mean, India have to dig the, what are you gonna say? Some of these anchors, I dunno if you know them.

Abhinandan: I know them.

Sumedha: Mm-hmm.

Abhinandan: I've seen over the years, they, they start arguing with you don't, there's nothing wrong. And what we do. Until about eight, nine years ago, they, they were putting up an act. But dude, if you live that life for 15 years of your life, you have to start believing a bullshit. Yeah.

Jayashree: But on the flip side, there are enough people who have lived all one could say decades of believing a certain thing, but are able to sort of step back from those positions and be quickly clear ahead

Abhinandan: about it.

Abhinandan: So they're, I think they're the sort

Jayashree: of,

Abhinandan: and they're the exceptions.

Sumedha: Maybe that's why we see very few people like MHI who come out of RS and write those

Abhinandan: and they'll say that. And also [00:42:00] he still came out. He was fairly young.

Sumedha: Yeah.

Abhinandan: You see, you cannot give your life to a cause and then say that, oh shit, I've wasted my life.

Sumedha: Scary.

Jayashree: Next two letters are from soup yellow, who has written two 200 word letters, so sorry, soup yellow. We have used AI again, soup says, I'm disappointed at how the protests in Iran are often framed through the lens of regime change, fears, and reflexive US bad narratives. In the past decade alone, each apprising has followed a grim pattern Nationwide.

Jayashree: Internet shutdowns lasting several days and death tolls varying between 503,000. Human rights groups have repeatedly said these shutdowns are used to hide the scale of killings. Yet coverage that should focus on what may be among the worst state, massacres of civilians, instead pivots to critiques of US intervention for many on the left moral outright seems selective, intense for Gaza, muted for Iran because it sits in the US bad camp.

Jayashree: Questions that journalists should ask, like why Iran imposes total information. [00:43:00] Blackouts are sidelined. There's a serious conversation to be had about intervention and its limits by telling Iranians to figure it out themselves, while downplaying the suffering does a disservice to their cause, it reduces their struggle to a footnote in anti-imperialist rhetoric.

Jayashree: The second letter also says that I found Yi's comments on Iran deeply troubling. I understand her framing of kashmir's occupied The analogy actually exposes the problem. Imagine. Imagine India carrying out mass killings in Kashmir, shutting down the internet, silencing domestic media, and then allowing a tightly mon monitored foreign journalists to echo state narratives.

Jayashree: That's effectively what Iran has done, but this reality was barely acknowledged. What concerned me most was the lack of pushback from Manisha and Aand. Despite the episode being framed as a debate, Jahi and Za Hasani's approach felt dismissive and veered into blaming everything on the us Mossa and Netanyahu.

Jayashree: External actors may have interest, but they cannot justify ignoring the suffering of ordinary, ordinary Iranians. I raised this because news laundry is previously shown nuance. I worry that on Iran, that [00:44:00] balance was missing. I hope news and reflects on ideological drift, editorial diversity, and safeguards against audience capture.

Abhinandan: Hmm. Any view on this, on how Iran has been covered and. Vis-a-vis how Palestine has been covered. I mean, I, I mean, have some views, but yeah. You ate, I mean, I just think that I get the point being made here. I don't, yeah, I don't think it's ever framed as a debate. Hafta is not a debate show, so I'm not sure why that's,

Jayashree: it's, we've been doing it wrong for all these years.

Abhinandan: Okay. Chill. Keep quiet now. You say something, I say You keep

Jayashree: quiet. I dare you.

Abhinandan: Now it's a debate. Okay. So, no,

Jayashree: I just, you know, it really becomes a debate when you switch off my camera and kick me out without letting me speak.

Abhinandan: Yeah. That's, that's when it's a debate. Yeah.

Anand: I just is on if only one topic is discussed.

Anand: Yeah. But there is, there is also an anxiety to move to the other topic.

Abhinandan: Right.

Anand: You have [00:45:00] many things to say, but you'd keep quiet because, you know, then, then the whole discussion would be on that topic.

Abhinandan: So I just think that a, at least from, 'cause I consume a lot of western media and western liberal media. I think Iran has been mentioned, uh, with the kind of horrible, and I don't think 3000 is, it's not between 500, 3000.

Abhinandan: I go to some, uh, Western media reports. The numbers of killed are over 10,000, 10 to 15,000. So I think the only difference is that why there is more outrage, uh. On Palestine is the same reason as more outrage when the state carries out a killing and a state that in at least the popular culture is seen as a just state.

Abhinandan: I don't think the overwhelming liberal majority see Iran as a just state. At least I don't, I dunno if JE does. Uh, so they're already [00:46:00] the bad guys as far as I'm concerned. It's just that Trump's intent of starting a war. There may be suspect and I, you know, I have certain concerns about that, but what Israel is doing has been embraced for too long by the world is it's fine.

Abhinandan: I separate and they're nothing. Netanyahu has a seat at the table

Sting: Yeah.

Abhinandan: Of world events doesn't.

Sting: Right.

Abhinandan: You know, it's like Elon Musk today, you know, said that where the human rights of those people who are killed by criminals are where the criminals are called criminals because they are criminals. No. Hmm.

Abhinandan: If the police is not there to protect them. Human rights, people will speak up. 'cause you have the monopoly of violence. When you misuse it, then we will speak up. No otherwise against the, you can't speak up the what is, what good is the police. So I think that is a difference in Iran and Palestine. Iran are already the bad guys.

Abhinandan: Yeah. But Nathan is still seen as a good guy. So I think that is why the volume of criticism is high. But I haven't seen any liberal media condoning what [00:47:00] Iran is doing unless I've missed someone.

Jayashree: Yeah, I agree with you. And I also think that Western media also applies this lower threshold of credibility, right?

Jayashree: Of random organizations are saying that yes, 10,000 people were killed in Iran. That is automatically accept as fact. But we are still constantly told that the Hamas controlled ministry in Gaza is claiming to have that ex people died. How did they die? They just fell dead. We aren't going to say how, but those numbers are queried so constantly, so rigorously.

Jayashree: And it has been happening for years. So. I know that I am that person who is probably being referred to, and also he has referred to me by name in the letter who is constantly bringing up this hypocrisy in comparison to Palestine. And I do go on these angry tirades about America. But honestly, I just, I mean, I, I would keep doing it as well.

Jayashree: I, I'm glad that there are others in the panel who wouldn't specifically share my view because yes, the diversity of opinion is important, but I don't think it can be [00:48:00] said enough because it isn't said enough otherwise. So, yeah.

Abhinandan: Hmm. Anan?

Anand: No. I think the, uh, US hold of the, um, a narrative in international relations has, has put Iran in the access of EIL along with North Korea,

Abhinandan: right?

Sumedha: Yeah.

Anand: So, uh. The dominant narrative has been this and Iran's, uh, act of sovereignty. It's seen by many as standing up to it. So, uh, like, uh, denying the inspection of nuclear facilities. And who are you to inspect? IAE and then, uh, PACT was signed. Then it, uh, the Pac, uh, unraveled and. All this, it's seen by people from the global south.

Anand: The, the global South sees Iran as a, an act of defiance despite its, uh, the nature of a [00:49:00] state not being in the western mold or say that cherish values of the western world, liberty and freedom and gender equality and other things. But, uh, uh, the national character, the national personality of Iran as a kind of counterpoint to this, uh, dominant US narrative of access of evil.

Anand: It's seen by global south as a, so a kind of inspiration in a different way. Not now. Global south can also be a mono. Uh, which is wrong to say within global South also, there can be different voices, but many people see it, uh, as a kind of defiance, which is necessary a kind of counterpoint to that hegemony,

Abhinandan: right?

Abhinandan: Yeah, exactly. I think that's that's true as well.

Jayashree: Right? Next email is what was

Abhinandan: Kashmir's reference? Yeah,

Jayashree: I had said that. Um,

Abhinandan: yeah,

Jayashree: I said that. I said, KMI is arguably, [00:50:00] I said, KMI is occupied or something like that. But also, I mean, I agree. I don't know if you're saying it hyperbolically, you're saying imagine India carrying out masculine knowledge.

Jayashree: Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean,

Abhinandan: some of those things happen, but, so yeah. I don't dunno if this irony there or not. It's literal.

Jayashree: All those things have happened.

Abhinandan: Yeah.

Sumedha: And the, uh. Uh, foreign media's reference is very similar to like what domestic media is the kind of image the domestic media is projecting of Kashmir.

Sumedha: Yeah. Like yesterday I was attending this conference by s Gil of India on reporting from Kashmir, and there was a one senior journalist who shared an example that it has become so tough to even do a story on rabies in Kmi that he, he was asked to write a letter to an official asking for a permission if he can do that story or not.

Abhinandan: Are you

Jayashree: serious? That's incredible. Like right next is Vijay. Vijay, sorry. Yet again, you are subjected to an AI summary of your slightly long letter, which is says half. That is my regular weekend. Listen, I really [00:51:00] value the discussions. I especially appreciate Anna's perspective. I initially saw it as merely contrarian, but now I feel it adds nuance in depth.

Jayashree: It often seems he has more to say, but time constraints limit the context. They're going to love what he says next. He says, I'd love a biweekly or monthly explainer style show with anan to break down complex topics for casual listeners. I'm also curious as to whether he finds law related news accessible to gender readers.

Jayashree: I personally find legal and economic reporting the hardest to follow. Uh, the letter also says, I've noticed more focus on international news lately giving ongoing developments in the US in crises in neighboring countries. How do you prioritize domestic versus global coverage? For instance, the delay in the BMC elections for three years deserved discussion.

Jayashree: It would also be dis interesting to track whether triple engine governments in Delhi and Bombay improve, improve governance over time.

Abhinandan: Hmm, good point. Yes. Do you think legal coverage is, uh, not simplified [00:52:00] enough in economics, or, or is there scope for it to be simpler? Actually, let's first decide, can it be simplified to an extent where just anyone can get it?

Anand: No. See pe people from the field, like, like from finance or economics field, uh, already think that it's oversimplified or from the legal background law thing. I think mainstream media does simplify it for the general readership and, uh, but, uh, some effort is required from the, on the part of the reader.

Anand: Also, if he has a student mindset, just go through a glossary.

Sting: Mm-hmm.

Anand: It'll take a week or two and you will be familiar with, uh, the terms used. And, uh, mainstream media is careful to not use many technical terms, but still, if it does, you can, uh, get your grip over that within a week or two. And law is a humanity subject, less just organized common sense.

Anand: It is not very complex as it comes across. [00:53:00] It's anybody can understand law with a very little effort. Yeah.

Abhinandan: Right. Mm-hmm.

Jayashree: I would say I find lawyers most irritating people to edit. They insist on using language and I think it's just very painfully formal and very painfully like

Anand: that Judy feel.

Jayashree: I don't think everything should be dumbed down.

Jayashree: I, but I also don't agree with Anna entirely that people should be expected to learn from a glossary for two weeks and then come back around. So I think there is a ground hap a happy way to do it

Anand: in the middle. Some papers are now giving this side explained or, and, and in times of India also. Yeah. But that's like

Abhinandan: one subject or one theme.

Anand: One team, one not general report. Yeah.

Abhinandan: Because you know, having been obsessed with economics, articles, podcasts, books for a very long time, and I love the subject. I had got hooked onto podcasts I think in 2003 or four. Uh, I think two, [00:54:00] no, two, four or five. I started listening to these and just how the subprime crisis was explained by NPR was really well done.

Abhinandan: And I've been following a bunch of podcasts and articles since, you know, I, I pick up any good respectable book on economics and read it. And I've started to understand, like what Anna said, if there's one theme, you can go understand it, but the wider it gets, you know, if you wanna talk about in the us, like I think RA's podcast is not very technical at, it's very informative.

Abhinandan: I think Unhedged is not very technical, it's very informative. But even so while you listen to it, there, there's some things that are technical and unless you have a fundamental understanding of the basic of e, you are not gonna get it. Hmm. So those kind of pitfalls are there in the theme itself. So. You cannot simplify it beyond a point you have to have.

Anand: Yeah. Means danger is the deceptive, deceptive reading of something you are not understanding, [00:55:00] but thinking that you are understanding. Right. So, uh, so for, say, journalists are Dylan de means, uh, they devil in a lot of things and you know that he's not understanding, but he's speaking two hours on it. Mm. So, uh, that, that is the danger of it, that you, uh, you have, you grasp one point of it, you are not, uh, familiar with the rest, familiar with interrelationships, lot of, so that that is one day of it.

Anand: Uh, second, uh, I think, uh, law. Reporting is also sometimes dumbed down, sometimes done dumbed down to an extent that it is some, uh, times misleading also because of the complexity of Indian judicial approach. So in the Indian judiciary has, its, uh, invented its own approach. Mm-hmm. Which is a, uh, they are trying to correct it, but it's [00:56:00] still, it's a lot of, uh, colonial terminology.

Anand: Lot of procedural, uh, say jargon is there and, uh, and very circum use of too many is there. So those are things, uh, I read some British court, uh, judgments. Um, they have simplified it. They're in plain English. Uh,

Abhinandan: but a bit, I mean, in India, any case, the English that's used call, so whether you're a young journalist, do you.

Abhinandan: Is there a economics columnist or platform or anything that you think is better than others?

Sumedha: Uh, I, uh, on law, on understanding Indian law, I've always found Fean Mustafa's YouTube channel. Very helpful.

Abhinandan: Really?

Sumedha: Yeah. And he, he picks up like, uh, any, like, uh, the current topic and he explain the legal background of it.

Sumedha: And it always surprises me how, like, how he's able to dumb it down for [00:57:00] such a wide audience.

Abhinandan: Hmm.

Jayashree: Okay, next letter is from Rama who says, given that I am at times critical of Nan's comments on gender and sexuality, I thought it was important to write this letter of appreciation for the Bakar Rehan interview.

Jayashree: I loved how he kept escalating the conversation with outrageous remarks, like, women are too lazy to be born and watching Rahan go along with everything. Given that there are so many ulu people out there, it's sad we don't have more episodes of, I agree on a very different note. The News Minute profile on Sheer Mbu was also great food for thought.

Jayashree: It's a great week to be an NLT and M subscriber. What a great email.

Abhinandan: Thank you so much Jama. I, and on many issues, my worldview perspectives are evolving as they, I hope continue to.

Jayashree: It's letters like this that'll keep him going. So Samya says, hi, team. I have a question and a suggestion for Anand. Question, what are Anand's views on the [00:58:00] ongoing arguments related to the constitutionality of the SIR in the Supreme Court?

Jayashree: And suggestion? Could he host a small episode similar to Puja Prassana? And let me explain. Related to matters taken up in the Supreme Court, especially those taken up by Constitution benches, it would help us subscribers understand the law, what constitute assembly thought while making a law and the nuances one must consider in present day society

Abhinandan: before Annan tells you the Constitution.

Abhinandan: S I'll answer the second question for you when we discuss this. He says, yeah, a very good idea. We'll do this after two, three weeks. He says, no, it's a shit idea. No one's gonna watch my show. So I'm just saying,

Jayashree: I wrote a proposal for your show.

Abhinandan: We've written proposal, said, yeah, good idea. Let's do it. Two weeks after the idea she died.

Abhinandan: No one's gonna watch it. So yeah, maybe he listen this time? Yes. Anand?

Anand: No. Uh, I think we have discussed a lot of times on the constitutionality of SIR. Mm-hmm. The simple answer is listen to the previous episodes, the link

Abhinandan: to

Anand: that, [00:59:00] you can

Abhinandan: just provide the link to the

Anand: earlier ones, discusses. I also, the matter is still sub judaizing.

Anand: There are still arguments going on in the Supreme Court Who's

Abhinandan: arguing for each side?

Anand: Uh,

Abhinandan: lead. Uh,

Anand: there is a, the, the

Anand: one for election commission.

Abhinandan: Okay. And,

Anand: uh, Sybil and there are one, two lawyers also.

Abhinandan: Okay.

Anand: Simple there. So, uh, uh, also, so, uh, I, I think, uh, on a lot of points, uh, the indications our Supreme Court has agreed with EEC, first on citizenship, it has agreed that you cannot cancel the citizenship, but you can verify citizenship.

Anand: Mr. The general direction of the arguments is going in that, um, the final judgment has not come. Uh, under 3 26 it has said that election commission has power to verify citizenship, but, uh, uh, cancellation of citizenship is not the ministry.

Abhinandan: Anand, [01:00:00] there's done a long piece on this. Another earlier TTA Produc will

Anand: Yes.

Anand: With the link. So, but we have to wait for the final judgment. This is the, uh, the sure argument. Yeah, arguments.

Sumedha: Uh, there is a book by former legal advisor of Election Commissioner, election Commission, Eske Men, and that book runs into 2000 pages and it is considered as a Bible amongst everybody who's trying to cover elections.

Sumedha: And it has some, it has a very interesting chapter on how Election commission deals with the, uh, subject of citizenship. And in that, I was talking to Mr. Manta a couple of days back and he told me that there is a, uh, old judgment of Supreme Court in which they had set that EC cannot look into the matters, cannot inquire into citizenship of a person.

Sumedha: So I'm really looking forward to. The judgment.

Anand: No, but that is a precedent with EC or the, that that is the [01:01:00] catch that EC can, uh ha uh, cons, uh, derive its constitutional power to say that it is needed now because of this and this region. And that is what has been argued, uh, because precedents, the Supreme Court precedents, uh, judges eat that for breakfast because if precedent was there, no lawyer was needed, only AI could do all arguments.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Anand: So precedents are case laws, but they are not, uh, the final, uh, arbiter of

Abhinandan: definitely the Supreme

Anand: Court.

Abhinandan: But at a lower court it could be. But

Sumedha: anan,

Anand: like fundamental, say Article three 20, say 3 26, says that citizen have to be registered as a voter. So the wording is such that you have to be a citizen.

Anand: And so, and the E has stuck to that. First, you, uh. Proof that you are a citizen and it is asking it, uh, [01:02:00] asking for certain credentials for that, what could be the basis of that that is being debated?

Sumedha: But the fundamental question here is also that whether ECI has the capacity to. Inquire into somebody's citizenship.

Abhinandan: Exactly. Capacity is also one of the, that's also being discussed. No debate that they don't even have the capacity. So how are we gonna check and, and has it been demonstrated with the workload?

Sumedha: And, uh, I mean, I have my apprehensions why they have suddenly included, uh, this, uh, uh, this suddenly trying to look into the citizenship of all voters in the country.

Sumedha: Uh, so I was talking to a former CEC and he told me that in 20 16, 20 17, he had suddenly started receiving a lot of complaints about, uh, that the, uh, ahead of the Goa assembly elections, that there are a lot of voters who don't have, who are not citizens, citizens of India, and they are, uh, registered as [01:03:00] voters.

Sumedha: So when he started and there was pressure built, there was some sort of a pressure that was built on him to, uh, check citizenship of voters. So. He said, he told me that it, it, it's, it is, it was, uh, at that time the legal advisors of the ECI had told him that it's not possible for, uh, ECI to check citizenship of voters.

Sumedha: And therefore they had gone ahead with a very light handed approach, which is that in the form six, when you register yourself as a quota, they had added a small declaration that anybody who's registering themselves as a voter, they have to declare that they're citizen of this country. So I'm really looking forward to,

Anand: and that is what they're saying now, that during elections we will have cooperation of the state government, the logistics will be in place.

Anand: Uh, that's, that is one of the arguments they're giving for coinciding it with the elections.

Abhinandan: Hmm. Shall next.

Jayashree: Okay, next email is anonymous. It says, [01:04:00] understandable to have differing opinions, and it's completely fine for anan to have a seemingly staunch ProE establishment stance in every topic that gets discussed.

Jayashree: But the unfortunate reality is that after a point, it becomes predictable. If there's a particular topic, I already know what a panelist is going to say, then that hurts the value of the overall product right in one hafta. AAN started by completely dismissing the whole blowback when it comes to the dynamics with Bangladesh, but he never really accentuated on what was the case.

Jayashree: As the Pakistan examples were just not accurate. I really hope this isn't offensive to AAN and cures.

Anand: No, but you didn't, uh, specify what was not accurate. So, uh, so that

Abhinandan: means has to write one more

Anand: email. So, uh, uh, I just said that, uh, we are overreading it and I think, uh, this week only times of India and United Express have reported that, uh, Bangladesh Cricket Board and uh, BCCI are patching up.

Anand: So I, oh, yeah. Is that right? Yes, they're patching up. They, they have reached out to each other. [01:05:00] And so that thing also, the, uh, Pakistan thing came because, uh, he changed the track and asked a general question that sports we, uh, politicized and that, uh, then the discussion was on not Bangladesh as a whole.

Anand: Then Pakistan question came up, so it was not related to the Bangladesh. So if you listen to that. Uh, segment again, you will get a clear picture.

Abhinandan: Well, I, I mean, I have a theory on why that happens and why AAN takes that position that may be offensive to Anan, although your letter will not. And that is a, what is

Jayashree: the theory?

Abhinandan: That is a question like Anan trained to be a bureaucrat. And I, I, I mean, I mean this part lightly, but part also seriously. I mean, you cannot have bureaucrat that questions everything that is as the bureaucracy that's written. I mean, if Anand is one of the most brilliant, you know, people I've met, and I don't know why you did not make it to the, is, I have no idea what the these things are.

Abhinandan: But for example, my [01:06:00] personality type, if I was sitting, let's say I married as a bureaucrat by some fucking flu on nature, someone write it, a boss. Why is this fucker always disagreeing? Why did he join this industry if he always wants to disagree? Like my father's in the army, it was very difficult for my father if Congress was in power.

Abhinandan: Very good. Yeah, very good. I like take a stand, dude. Like, because he was talked to. Obey from the time you're NDA to the time you're IMA You have never said no, sir. You all said yes sir. That is a part of why a politics is what they are. I have never said yes sir. Even when someone has said, eat something that's good for you, I will not eat.

Abhinandan: See, I was like this moron who has just tweeted to me. I tweeted that. Watch this show, rah. Mind blown. Whatever. I'll, I'll just tell you what I wrote. One second.

Jayashree: Is this what you're doing while we're sitting and discussing intently on half the tweet?

Abhinandan: No, no. Is a long, yesterday.

Jayashree: Oh,

Abhinandan: I had just a second. I [01:07:00] just, sorry, one second.

Abhinandan: One second. Yeah. So yesterday I had tweeted that a amazing show. RA two, you know, ROS to the team, every actor, tiniest role, excellent, et cetera. This moon man, just as a planned to watch the show. Uh, hitting that Kami Luni certified means a definite propaganda watch. I'm gonna skip it. This moon man is, I can guarantee you he's a Modi follower.

Abhinandan: This, but what a

Jayashree: sick burn. Do you

Abhinandan: ever, this is how he makes his life choices. He said, it's a good show. I won't watch it. Modi said, it's good to stand in your head and then puk into your own mouth. I'll do it. You see that? So, the psychology, I'm not gonna decide whether film is good or bad based on what X said.

Abhinandan: You know, one person. So, you know, maybe at one point of time when I was young, I was this guy. If someone says, drink milk, cin, I'll throw it in the water. That's,

Jayashree: I think Mond should be allowed to rebut.

Abhinandan: What do [01:08:00] you think that's, that's.

Anand: No

Abhinandan: training,

Anand: I think, uh,

Abhinandan: training as a youth,

Anand: no. I think we are dealing with, uh, topics here, deal with, uh, perspectives, opinion and uh, some facts.

Anand: So subjectivity comes in it. Uh, but what I'm saying that, uh, facts and analysis are not, not ProE establishment and t establishment. Uh, this will be establishment neutral. In, in that then that means a once identity should not be that I AMT establishment or ProE establishment. That is my view.

Sumedha: Hmm.

Jayashree: Electric PR says Hello team.

Jayashree: I've been a lurker, consuming free content for a couple of months. I finally decided to get a subscription a few months back. Really glad I did because I get to hear the team's views and grounds reports on issues that matter. I've been enjoying hafta each hafta. I'm always intrigued when talks about football or zu about gaming.

Jayashree: I think pop culture is a great gateway to bring people onto the platform. A NA [01:09:00] is a great example of that. What do you think? What do you think is a sports and gaming show? Long overdue. Good God. Lastly, keep up the good work. Love to each and every one of you. There is a special series coming up on football though, so

Abhinandan: Yeah, there is.

Abhinandan: It was a

Anand: podcast. Some, some people ran a podcast game or some sports. Yeah,

Abhinandan: I mean, we have discussed, we had a

Jayashree: sports podcast.

Abhinandan: No, we don't have a sports podcast. We had one for a while. We are doing a podcast, a mini series on Indian football, not football in general. But um, on the gaming one, I've discussed this with Shadu.

Abhinandan: Let's see where it goes.

Jayashree: Uh, the next is from Simmer who says, hi Hafta team. The last subscribers take a letter. Talked about the startup ecosystem in India. I've been curious about it for a long time from Shark Tank India going into season five and claiming it's now cool to be an entrepreneur to unicorn founders.

Jayashree: Praising the governments claiming it's done a lot to develop the ecosystem to the letter you got, which pointed out how the ecosystem is still in a network. I'd really like to see [01:10:00] a deep dive from the NL team on this. It could be in the form of a, let's talk about or aina if we are to believe that startups will fuel India's growth ambition.

Jayashree: I'd love to know the insights stories told and investigated by NL

Sumedha: interest's

Jayashree: a fun idea.

Sumedha: That's interesting. Yeah.

Jayashree: Hmm. May I also say Shark Tank India is a scam because I think people keep talking out and saying they didn't actually receive the money after they were supposedly funded. So there is that.

Jayashree: Raven says It's disheartening to see attacks on minorities in Bangladesh, but more troubling is the outrage against those who speak against the genocide in Gaza, accusing them of being selective. People should be encouraged to take a stand, not criticized for what they can't address. No individual can speak against every injustice and such Accusations often reflect existing prejudice against Muslim.

Jayashree: The two situations are structurally very different. The genocide in Gaza State led and internationally backed making public pressure essential violence in Bangladesh stems from extremist groups, exploiting governance [01:11:00] failures, and is not state endorsed. It requires institutional revival, not outrage against an entire country.

Jayashree: It's alarming that this misplaced outrage has reached positions of power such as the BCCI urging TTA NI riders to release must rahman solely for being Bangladeshi. These years somehow shut for environmentalists, but become quick decision makers for religious extremists. Very well said.

Abhinandan: That's a good point anyway, on this, uh, Samantha,

Sumedha: I agree.

Abhinandan: You do. That's

Sumedha: a good point.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, that's all the time we have for this week. The rest that are left will be taken up by the panel who will do subscribers take next time, which is Manisha Ramaul and one correspondent from a team of young, energetic, enthusiastic correspondence. So thank you for your feedback.

Abhinandan: Please keep it coming. You can mail us at podcast@newsrun.com or click on the link below. Please write hafta in the title and please try to keep below [01:12:00] one 50 words so we can include as many as possible. With that, let's get any recommendation that we have. Quick one recommendation each. Um, I can go with mine first.

Abhinandan: I recommend Cora. I have not enjoyed the show so much. I think in the last two to three years, maybe more. I, you know, really wanna stay awake, watch it. I'm not the kind who can stay awake no matter how interested I am. You're trying to watch something, but it's a mind blowingly well-made show. And the one thing I will say is, which I don't think I have ever seen a show in my life where every single role, the smallest role to the biggest role was so well cast and so well performed.

Abhinandan: Even someone who had like just a few minutes roll, pulled up a performance as if that person had that condition or that life experience. Outstanding show.

Anand: But it's, it's based as a suspense later. It is, yeah. But it's a, but it goes on the back stories of [01:13:00] cops. So, uh, means, uh, it is a good say so in the sense you are saying those are, its strong points, but, uh, the, uh, thing is that to, uh, the narrative of, uh, say, uh, solving a murder mystery that gets sidetracked.

Abhinandan: Yeah. I think what it does is it, it takes up many issues in a seamless manner.

Anand: Mm-hmm.

Abhinandan: Bonded labor. The prejudice of bihari live in Punjab, which has been a problem for the last 30, 40 years. Takes up very effectively, very hard hitting gender. You know, the hypocrisy of the landed ju seek gentry. Uh. It's the only show that actually made me sympathetic towards cops and you know how hard that is to make me sympathetic towards cops.

Abhinandan: So in that sense, uh, yeah.

Anand: Okay. So last time when we were on Subscribers tech, we [01:14:00] didn't have any recommendation.

Abhinandan: Oh, we didn't? Oh. So I've just broken the rules, so if you don't, it's fine. You can go back. I do. I actually Okay. You do. Okay. Go for it. Yes, please. Jesse. Then Sum Smith also does, huh?

Jayashree: I'm from a particular generation background where I was obsessed with this show called America's Next Top Model.

Jayashree: It is about, it's a reality show where you try to become a model and it is hosted by Tyra Banks. So there is a Netflix documentary, which is called Reality Check, which is sort of like unpacks all the horrible things that actually happened on America's Next Top Model. I am not recommending that documentary.

Jayashree: Instead, I'm saying if you. Want a really good peek into this entire world. You should read this memoir by a former contestant called, um, Sarah Harson. It's called, you Wanna Be On Top. So the thing is that she's also, she's didn't become a model. Eventually she modeled for a bit, but now she's a standup comedian and she's a very sharp and entertaining writer.

Jayashree: So it's a very quick, very fun, very slightly horrifying read that tells, gives you like a real inside picture into [01:15:00] what America's Next Top Model is about. How it is weirdly and wildly exploitative and yeah, it's great fun,

Abhinandan: Samantha.

Sumedha: Yeah, so a couple of weeks back when we were all discussing about Apple layoffs and I came across this piece by David Remnick from 1997, his profile of Catherine Graham, it is titled as Citizen K, where in which he explores how, what made her, uh.

Sumedha: What made her enable this story on Watergate scandal. And, and my second recommendation is on India's Catherine Graham, which is ti who likes to cultivate her, her, her image in the mold of Catherine Graham.

Abhinandan: Does she?

Sumedha: Yeah. Okay. And it is explored in this Hindu, uh, caravan's profile of Hindu Sun Times, which is titled as Same Old News

Abhinandan: New.

Sumedha: No, [01:16:00] it is, uh, it is an old profile. I think it did it a couple of years back.

Abhinandan: Okay. I missed this one. Hmm.

Anand: So I also recommend, okay, so there is a lot of, uh, talk about these days about to is AI over hyped in its evaluation and all that. So, and it's, uh, what would be its real impact on day-to-day lives and economy.

Anand: So, uh, I I just a small piece that Paul Krogman, who went on to win Nobel Prize in economics, he wrote in 98 and he wrote for, I think New York Times, if I am, I remember correctly that, uh, he was asked about internet and he said that it'll have a very minor effect on world economy and lives of people. So, uh, I am not saying that AI is in the same bracket, but, uh, and that that piece is available and, uh.

Anand: And [01:17:00] you read that, uh, how he got wrong. Uh, um, uh, a world famous economist got it wrong, the on the internet and then he defense and defense is for the people who write journalists and columnists. He said that actually I had to write it in a hurry and I had a deadline to meet. He, he actually has, and I, I didn't thought it through.

Anand: He, he has actually said that. So, uh, while writing deadline, and it's a very common occurrence while meeting deadline. People write sometimes in a stuff.

Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

Anand: I may, it may not be in, in, who could predict it? It may be, yeah. I

Abhinandan: mean, the, of the pc, this, which everybody has, who was it who had said that you'll probably sell one in a city when, when the computer was invented?

Abhinandan: Now there's one in every home, so Yes. Yeah. I, I, I and some big investor, like a huge one. I forget who said that a subscribers would know.

Anand: So in only in hindsight he is looking fullest, [01:18:00] but uh, who knew at, in 98 that internet would be so big. Exactly. Yeah. So it's completely so, uh,

Abhinandan: upend the whole economics of how things are done and make us so productive.

Anand: So at the end of the match, everyone is wise, but, uh, to be wise in the middle of the match is different thing.

Abhinandan: How you can be wise on some things and not on others. Because he was one of those who kept calling the 2008 subprime bubble. Uh, 'cause I remember used to read him a lot and he was right on that one.

Anand: Mm-hmm.

Abhinandan: And there were others who were completely wrong on that one, including, you know, global giants and pundits. Yeah. So it just depends what you get Right. What you got wrong. On that note. Thank you so much to a wonderful sound recordist Anil, thank you to a wonderful producer, Amit. And thank you to a wonderful young journalist, Soha.

Abhinandan: What are you working on now? Soha, can you tell us or is it hush hush? You don't have to say if it's hush hush.

Sumedha: Oh, I think it's hush hush. [01:19:00]

Abhinandan: Okay. So I hope it's, I hope it's a really good one. Yeah. I hope he won't go out and say, you know, I've been, I working, I've not working on anything. But I told him it's very harsh.

Jayashree: Thank God he said I could say

Abhinandan: this investigation.

Sumedha: No, this is something I'm really nervous.

Abhinandan: Oh, really?

Sumedha: Yeah.

Abhinandan: Okay. Well, don't be nervous about, uh, outcomes that No, I'm not knowing legally we'll be protected and our subscribers will protect us. But on everything else, yeah. Be nervous.

Jayashree: Arnolds will argue for you in court.

Abhinandan: Yeah. Arnold will argue for you in court. Nahim, Ari, thank you.

Anand: Thank you.

Abhinandan: And those of you who think an should start a show, let's start. Piling on the mails, then maybe they'll build the pressure. Uh, we will see you again next week. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for your support, the QR code, and the link is there.

Abhinandan: Tell your friends, family and whoever cares to join paid to keep news free. Have a wonderful week.

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