NL Hafta Subscribers’ Take Ep 8: A special feedback episode

In this special episode of NL Hafta , Abhinandan Sekhri, Manisha Pande, Raman Kirpal and Rinchen Norbu catch up on all the letters that we’ve received from subscribers.

Hafta letters: NL app issues, story suggestions, CJP protest

. We have a page for subscribers to send letters to our shows. If you want to write to Hafta, click here .

Check out the Newslaundry store and flaunt your love for independent media.

Download the Newslaundry app .

Timecodes

00:00:00 – Introduction

00:02:09 – Letters

References

Get The Sticker. Pay to keep News Free

Produced by Amit Pandey; sound by Anil Kumar.

. [00:00:00] Manisha: This is a News Laundry podcast and you're listening to NL Hafta

[00:00:11] Abhinandan: Angrez apna lagaan aur News Laundry apna haftah kabhi nahi chhodte. Not only hum haftah kabhi nahi chhodte, hum add kar dete hain haftah Subscribers Take so that any pending email grievance is dealt with and addressed because unlike some other people in our country, we don't just ignore the criticism that [00:00:30] comes our way.

[00:00:30] Abhinandan: But we are happy to report it's not just criticism that comes. Many of you also write good things. So thank you for that. This is the eighth episode of Subscribers Take. In the panel today, Manisha Pandey.

[00:00:42] Manisha: Hi.

[00:00:43] Abhinandan: Rinchin Norbu.

[00:00:44] Rinchen: Hi.

[00:00:45] Abhinandan: And joining us on Zoom is Raman Kripal. Hi, Raman sir.

[00:00:48] Rinchen: Hi.

[00:00:50] Abhinandan: So those of you who don't already know, now we've done eight episodes.

[00:00:53] Abhinandan: All the emails that we can't address in the regular haftah because it sometimes goes over an hour and a half or two hours, we save them [00:01:00] up and then we address them in a special Subscribers Take, which is dedicated to responding to whatever inputs you have. So if you're a subscriber, you can mail us at podcasts@newslaundry.com.

[00:01:11] Abhinandan: I repeat, podcasts@newslaundry.com, but you have to be a subscriber, and if you're not a subscriber yet, it's a great time to become one because people are now proud to support in- independent media. It's trendy. You know, of course, we had set the trend about 15 years ago. So you can get stickers such as [00:01:30] these.

[00:01:30] Abhinandan: You can put them on your fridge, on your car, on your cycle, on your f- on your relative's window who doesn't like independent media just to piss them off. Uh, so if you're already a subscriber, we are sending them for free. Just pay for the, uh, courier charges. And if you're not a subscriber, we're giving you a discount because now suddenly everyone's aware of the importance of independent media.

[00:01:54] Abhinandan: You'll get these stickers for free so you can wear proudly, "I pay to keep news free." Uh, [00:02:00] because I had that sticker on my car and someone stopped me and said, "Good, you support independent media." I said, "Thank you so much." With that, let me start off, and when I get tired, Rinchin or Manisha can take over.

[00:02:14] Manisha: Yes.

[00:02:15] Abhinandan: Erbil says, "Here's a more natural spoken version. I'm looking for book rec- recommendations on caste. I have Annihilation of Caste on my reading list, and I'm currently reading Meet the Savarnas. What I'm really trying to understand is caste itself, where it came from, how it [00:02:30] evolved over time, and how caste-based discrimination became so deeply rooted in our society.

[00:02:34] Abhinandan: I'm especially interested in understanding how much of our behavior is influenced by caste." So putting this out to all the listeners, if you have any recommendations you think I should explore, please send them. You can mail Erbil at erbiltheelephant?

[00:02:50] Abhinandan: Elephant, yeah. But the and the elephant's E is the same. So it's erbilthelifant@gmail.com. [00:03:00] It's on my screen. But-

[00:03:03] Raman: There are-

[00:03:03] Abhinandan: You guys have any recommendations? Raman sir, yeah ...

[00:03:05] Raman: there are two, there are

[00:03:06] Abhinandan: two writers.

[00:03:06] Raman: Hmm. There are two writers, uh, if you really want to have a basic understanding of caste. So two, uh, very renowned sociologist of India, Andre Bete- Hmm

[00:03:13] Raman: he has written on caste and class. Hmm. And MN Srinivas- Mm ... who has

[00:03:19] Raman: written on, uh, I think his book name was Modernization of Indian

[00:03:20] Josy promo: Tradition- Mm ...

[00:03:21] Raman: if I'm not wrong. Uh,

[00:03:29] Raman: so where, where [00:03:30] the caste has really been, uh, you know, dealt with in detail. So they are academic books, but, uh, I think they have given a very good under- understanding of caste system in India.

[00:03:42] Rinchen: I have, uh, one I've just tried to Googled it again. I read this some time back, so this is Caste Matters. Caste Matters.

[00:03:49] Rinchen: Ah. Suraj Yengde's book. Suraj Yengde, yeah. I was also recommend that. Um, and of course, the other two books mentioned. Uh, I've, I haven't read as many books as I should on caste, but I would also [00:04:00] recommend beyond... If you wanna go beyond books, I would recommend, uh, uh, this reporter from The Caravan, Sagar, who speaks- Hmm

[00:04:06] Rinchen: who, who speaks and writes a lot about caste matters. Uh, his work is definitely worth checking out. He recently did a podcast, uh, with one of our columnists, Anurag Minusarma. Hmm. So it's a really excellent podcast, uh, which I would recommend you listen. So yeah, those are my recommendations.

[00:04:23] Abhinandan: Hadn't, uh, Mukul- And

[00:04:24] Raman: one more, one more writer.

[00:04:25] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[00:04:26] Raman: One more writer is Yogendra Singh. Hmm. So he has also [00:04:30] written very extensively on this.

[00:04:31] Abhinandan: Hadn't Mukul also written something on caste? Um-

[00:04:35] Manisha: Mukul Kesavan?

[00:04:36] Abhinandan: No. Um, who wrote that really thick book on the Gita Press? Akshay Mukul.

[00:04:41] Rinchen: Akshay Mukul. Akshay

[00:04:42] Manisha: Mukul. No. Yeah. Akshay Mukul's written on Gita Press and then Ag- Aghay.

[00:04:46] Manisha: Hmm. But I don't think he's written on caste. No. Anand Teltumbde has written, like- Yeah, of course ... the book, Republic of Caste- Yeah ... is, I mean, it's... But I have not read it, but it's supposed to be the best.

[00:04:55] Abhinandan: Right, Erbil. Then Madan says, "Just want to let you know, the new Kartik Aaryan [00:05:00] movie, Nagrzilla- ... is produced by the same people you did a recent Bollywood feature on, Manisha."

[00:05:06] Manisha: Nagzilla, I have not seen

[00:05:08] Abhinandan: it I've not even heard of Nagzilla Let me see

[00:05:09] Rinchen: who are the

[00:05:11] Manisha: Jain production

[00:05:13] Abhinandan: Pull out Nagzilla for

[00:05:15] Manisha: us Sounds so weird. Naglok ka pehla kand Mahavir Jain, yes. Mahavir

[00:05:17] Rinchen: Jain? Yes.

[00:05:19] Manisha: Mahavir

[00:05:20] Abhinandan: Jain? Achcha Anjali- Part, part three is coming out of the- The

[00:05:23] Manisha: Jain bros Anjali

[00:05:24] Rinchen: Mahavir Jain and Aadhaar Poonawalla

[00:05:27] Abhinandan: I see Then Harsh [00:05:30] Vardhan says, "As a 23-year-old NewsLaundary subscriber and a regular Hafta listener, I'd like to express my extreme frustration with the state of policing in India, and how police personnel are, and have always been nothing more than lawless gunda gangs backed by the state.

[00:05:44] Abhinandan: This is consistent across political, as well as geographical boundaries. I propose changing the scheme of the police uniform every five years to match the party colors of the winner. That will at least be a more honest reflection of reality." Harsh Vardhan, fantastic idea. Jokes apart, I believe that freeing the [00:06:00] police from political influence and making it more accountable to the public would mean fixing the very foundation from which stem all other aspects of the state, its monopoly on violence.

[00:06:10] Abhinandan: Do you think there will ever be a realistic scenario where the state, states and the center come together in the name of police reform- Hmm ... and willingly give up such a big chunk of their hard power for the greater good? Uh, book club Bangalore plans. Yes, uh, we do. In fact, Muskan, my colleague, is figuring out Bangalore plans.

[00:06:27] Manisha: Yeah. The next month, no? [00:06:30]

[00:06:30] Abhinandan: Something like this? We're thinking of, uh, August, but let's see. Maybe August or September. We'll definitely do a Bangalore book club. Wow,

[00:06:34] Manisha: okay.

[00:06:35] Abhinandan: Hmm, what do you think? Is it possible, reforms?

[00:06:39] Rinchen: No, I mean see, I- ultimately it's about incentives, and currently the political class has no incentive to give up that power unless they are forced by the polity or pe- or, you know, people who are sort of...

[00:06:53] Rinchen: Unless they're forced by their voters, unless it becomes an issue, uh, like say education as, as, as it is currently right [00:07:00] now. Unless policing becomes a serious sort of, you know, voter related issue, I really don't think, uh, politicians would give up that sort of power. It's because they work on incentives ultimately.

[00:07:10] Rinchen: But

[00:07:11] Manisha: one really wished-

[00:07:13] Josy promo: Yeah ...

[00:07:13] Manisha: that this would happen.

[00:07:14] Josy promo: I-

[00:07:14] Manisha: But I feel like also there should be, um, like army veterans have a very strong lobby that is very involved with what's happening in the army. And even the police, like this, uh, petition that's been filed on the pellet guns used, it's by a former IPS, Yashovardhan [00:07:30] Jha.

[00:07:30] Manisha: Hmm. Maybe people in service can't say much, but I think seniors, veterans, they also need to come together to really be a lobby to push for this.

[00:07:39] Abhinandan: I mean, I don't know. Like, I think also the camaraderie and the togetherness of- Army ... Fauji brass is because they- Mm ... are like boarding school boys.

[00:07:51] Rinchen: Yeah.

[00:07:52] Abhinandan: They've been together at NDA, they've been together at IMA.

[00:07:54] Abhinandan: Mm. So it's that same thing, like if you've been to an all-boys boarding, there is that, you know, feeling of community. Cops don't [00:08:00] have that. Yeah. So actually cops, the way they throw each other under the bus- Hmm ... they know that they are... And they all know that, and they don't even m- I mean, it's not like they take it personally.

[00:08:07] Abhinandan: I mean, I know senior cops. He says, "Look, my colleague who's junior to me..." In fact, we were discussing, Ramman said yesterday, one guy from '89 batch superseded the guy from '84 batch, and he will, if the political bosses say, "Arrest him and start an inquiry," they will do that. And that guy knows he'll do that.

[00:08:22] Abhinandan: Mm. So there is... And it's a very cynical thing, but I think the- Other than incentives, the other possibility is [00:08:30] we all know what everybody thinks of the cops. But the way they have been shown their place by the protesters, and I'm not talking about the violence, I'm just saying telling them to their face, "You guys suck."

[00:08:41] Manisha: Mm. Mm.

[00:08:42] Abhinandan: I think maybe I'm expecting too much. I think shaming them also may, uh, lead to some sort of reform.

[00:08:49] Manisha: I don't know. But see what's happening in Bihar, those-

[00:08:51] Abhinandan: Mm ...

[00:08:52] Manisha: everyone who protested is still locked up. The cops bashed some of the protesters.

[00:08:57] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:08:58] Manisha: I mean, what happens in Delhi, [00:09:00] sadly, it's just doesn't happen in the rest of the country.

[00:09:02] Abhinandan: In other ... Yeah, correct. Anonymous says, "Thank you for your reporting and discussions. In connection to the demand for reform in the education system, I s- wanted to attract attention to the large number of vacancies in elite academic institutions like IITs, I- IITs, AIIMS, et cetera. Recently, ISRO saw many resignations adding to the vacancies, which number in the thousands.

[00:09:21] Abhinandan: It is not enough to just construct buildings and claim the work of building as an institution. Such irregularities compound the pressure on students giving [00:09:30] competitive exams. It also contributes to the brain drain, as finding a job as a well-qualified individual is harder by the day. Even though the US makes it harder for academics, the government only says big words, but doesn't make it easier to return and work in India and research.

[00:09:44] Abhinandan: Private companies also don't host research departments in India. Is it possible for NL to deep dive into this?" Well, actually, Manisha, we've been-

[00:09:52] Abhinandan: Mm ...

[00:09:52] Abhinandan: contemplating this. Yeah. I mean, there is some grant given if you want to research on gobar and gaumutra. I know that there was officially some money that was set [00:10:00] aside for that.

[00:10:02] Abhinandan: But ISRO, uh... Actually, that's a story that was taken up by, uh, I think The Daily Brief, um, about the ISRO resignation. The government was saying it has nothing to do with- this is normal. Uh, the claim is it's not.

[00:10:16] Manisha: Um, Daily... I don't know the story. But no, we were trying to do something on ISRO. Uh, we had got some leads also on this also, no?

[00:10:24] Manisha: We did. Some. Yeah. But then they didn't wanna... They were currently working, so they didn't wanna really... [00:10:30] But if anyone has any leads, please send us.

[00:10:32] Abhinandan: Yeah.

[00:10:32] Manisha: We should follow this.

[00:10:32] Abhinandan: Abhinavansakrey@gmail.com Right. Then we have Priya Patel says, "On and off subscriber here. You guys are probably getting a lot of flak for inviting Hartosh to discuss Satluj.

[00:10:45] Abhinandan: I liked the counter arguments made by Shardul and Manisha. Maybe it's worth inviting another Punjab expert from the Sikh community to make their counter arguments."

[00:10:52] Raman: Hmm. "

[00:10:53] Abhinandan: If they're willing to, of course. Just a thought." Priya, um, thank you. Actually, we are, we've [00:11:00] already spoken to about four people. We're putting together a panel to discuss Satluj-

[00:11:03] Raman: Hmm

[00:11:03] Abhinandan: with journalists who worked on the ground, with a screenwriter, because the angle we were discussing is the how complete can a film be? Yeah. I mean, can you blame a film for leaving certain bits out, and how does it kind of change the narrative? But then, you know, last two weeks the news cycle was something else.

[00:11:21] Abhinandan: Hmm. So we've pushed that. But yes, we have a panel in place, and we will be doing a detailed discussion on this. Then Nikhil says, "It would be interesting to wonder if the freedom movement would [00:11:30] have had the same momentum if instead of cracking down on Indians, the Britisher had given freebies like cash.

[00:11:36] Abhinandan: Sorry to be flippant." Nikhil, that's okay. We're always flippant. Prakash Iyer says, "Hello, Newsline team. Wasn't the information about Kalra available in public domain prior to Media Rumble interview? It was a planned event, and the movie was to be discussed. Hmm. An ideal opportunity to discuss both the censor board issues as well as the movie subject itself.

[00:11:53] Abhinandan: Why was seamless, seemingly obvious homework gone done prior to it?" Prakash, because the panel was for, [00:12:00] uh, people who had made different kind of films. I hosted the panel, and quite honestly, just the- Oh, God ... uh, the size of team we have, I can't go do a deep dive into each film. Uh, I had seen his film, and that's about- Huh

[00:12:15] Abhinandan: as much as I, I knew of it.

[00:12:17] Manisha: Also, the panel was really about censorship.

[00:12:19] Abhinandan: Hmm, not

[00:12:19] Manisha: about the film. I mean, this would have to be a deep dive into-

[00:12:21] Abhinandan: One film ...

[00:12:22] Manisha: yeah. And irrespective of what the film shows, yeah, censorship still... I mean- Hmm ... the point is that he deserved to show his film.

[00:12:29] Abhinandan: Yeah.

[00:12:29] Manisha: [00:12:30] Whatever you may think of.

[00:12:31] Abhinandan: Yeah. Ravindra Singh says, "Hi, team. I watched Hafta discussion on Satluj and want to share a concern about the continuing demonization of Sikhs in mainstream discourse. Abhinandan suggests that because Jaswant Singh Khalra sympathized with Khalistan, his legacy is somehow diminished. But we don't know why he held those views.

[00:12:47] Abhinandan: After Operation Blue Star, 1984 anti-Sikh violence and police terror in Punjab, many felt abandoned by the state."

[00:12:53] Manisha: Hmm. "

[00:12:54] Abhinandan: Khalra never joined a militant group. Instead, he exposed illegal killings, and that work should stand on its own." Hmm. No doubt. [00:13:00] "On the numbers, I agree with Bal that there is no definitive figure, but even 6 to 7,000 killings are far too many."

[00:13:06] Abhinandan: Well, even- Yeah ... 100 is far too many, yeah. "His call for accountability also seems inconsistent. He holds Modi responsible because leadership matters, yet defends his own uncle." You know, honestly, I, at least on our platform here, I've never discussed KPS Gill with him, and I, uh, maybe there's video, but I, I've never seen him discuss KPS Gill.

[00:13:25] Abhinandan: Have you?

[00:13:26] Rinchen: I think he-

[00:13:26] Manisha: On Twitter he was.

[00:13:27] Rinchen: Hmm. I think he wrote a piece for Scroll also, I think, on KPS- [00:13:30] On KPS Gill? Yeah, I think on KPS Gill. Yeah, yeah. I think he written

[00:13:32] Manisha: on KPS- Precisely he's refuting the numbers and everything.

[00:13:36] Rinchen: Hmm.

[00:13:36] Abhinandan: Oh, the numbers. Yeah.

[00:13:37] Rinchen: And no, and also I think defending his u- his uncle's actions also- Yeah

[00:13:41] Rinchen: in the distinct

[00:13:42] Abhinandan: case. But th- that's not a discussion I have, yeah, because I'm not gonna discuss KPS Gill with his nephew. Uh, we were discussing Jhelum, and that is what-

[00:13:49] Manisha: Satluj.

[00:13:49] Abhinandan: Satluj ... Satluj, sorry. That is what it was restricted to Halim Reza says, "Hey, really enjoyed your latest podcast episode 598. On episode 597, Hartosh's [00:14:00] arguments are good.

[00:14:00] Abhinandan: I would be delighted if you could have another round with him along with Jose Joseph of The Silent Coup." That would be a fantastic one, Jose and Hartosh. Uh, "They were not expected to behave like terrorists. They were hunting even in the thickest fog of war. The law abider and law breaker must be distinguished."

[00:14:16] Abhinandan: Page 218, Silent Coup. Mm. Well, I mean, that's a great book. Yeah. I mean, Jose is just next level writer. In fact, I've just done an interview with him on his new book. Here's a

[00:14:24] Abhinandan: little promo.

[00:14:25] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:14:25] Abhinandan: Then Birth of

[00:14:25] Abhinandan: a Nation is gonna have to compete with Bal Narendra [00:14:30] Today we have with us Jose Joseph, who I have interviewed for the third time now because he has written yet another book.

[00:14:38] Abhinandan: It's called Birth of a Nation. So how long are days in Kerala? Ram Guha has written a book on, you know, when India came about. There's so many books written on this. Did you feel that, "Dude, will I be end up doing what has been done before already?"

[00:14:50] Josy promo: Independence was not just the bloodiest partition in human history.

[00:14:53] Josy promo: Hmm. Not just the formation of the largest republic in human history, not just the first big state to emerge out of [00:15:00] nonviolence. You know, Gandhi pulls ahimsa out of our great Indian Hindu tradition- Hmm ... and makes it into the most powerful weapon.

[00:15:06] Abhinandan: Here was this repository of all the scandals and all the filth that was happening inside their palaces.

[00:15:12] Josy promo: Political department that you're talking about, which is the most important department of the empire run by Sir Conrad Corfield. He's burning down documents which contains all the secrets and scandals of the princely states and the rulers of the princely states. Hmm. In the second week of June, there is a meeting which Mountbatten [00:15:30] called.

[00:15:30] Josy promo: At that meeting, Nehru just gives it to Sir Conrad Corfield. He takes him on in front of everybody, and Mountbatten goes quiet.

[00:15:36] Raman: Hmm.

[00:15:37] Josy promo: I think it's the greatest triumph of journalism in human history. Every freedom fighter being a journalist. Gandhi founded four newspapers. Ambedkar- That's

[00:15:45] Abhinandan: interesting. I've never thought of it like that.

[00:15:46] Josy promo: Yeah. Ambedkar four, Nehru one. I think that what is happening in our media today is, in many ways, is-

[00:15:53] Abhinandan: Is the opposite of what indep- what journalists did for independence, journalists today are doing the opposite. [00:16:00] Uh, but yeah, I mean, I hear you, Halim. I, I think. But anyway, this, because Jose's area of expertise is not Punjab, this panel we're putting together is- Hmm

[00:16:11] Abhinandan: Punjab specifically.

[00:16:11] Rinchen: By the way, the first time I ever read about Jaswant Singh Khalra was in The Silent Coup. Oh, is

[00:16:16] Abhinandan: that

[00:16:16] Rinchen: right? Yeah, that's the first time I'd ever come across his name.

[00:16:19] Abhinandan: Hmm. And,

[00:16:19] Rinchen: like, then went into a rabbit hole of research.

[00:16:23] Abhinandan: Harpinder Rayar- Rayar ... Rayar says, this is, uh, summarized using AI, [00:16:30] "Hi, I'm a Canadian who regularly watches your YouTube videos and admire your journalism.

[00:16:33] Abhinandan: However, I was a little disappointed by the discussion in your episode, who was Jaswant Singh Khalra? The focus shifted from the documented human rights abuses to Khalra's political views."

[00:16:41] Raman: Hmm. "

[00:16:42] Abhinandan: Even if he admired Bhindranwale, does that diminish his work exposing illegals?" No, it doesn't. "Why was his character debated instead of the atrocities uncovered?"

[00:16:50] Abhinandan: I'm not sure we're debating his character. There was just one aspect which was new to me, and it-- for me, it was an important aspect. "The figure of 25,000 disappeared [00:17:00] people has long been contested, and many Punjabis who lived through that period believe the actual number was higher. More importantly, even one unlawful killing is too many.

[00:17:06] Abhinandan: There has never been meaningful accountability for the '84 anti-Sikh violence or the abuses during Punjab's insurgency. The trauma remains deeply personal for many families. I encourage you to hear survivor testimonies, including Jaswant Singh Dhillon's account, and approach his history with greater sensitivity and context."

[00:17:22] Abhinandan: So Harpinder, actually, I've done a series which actually was- hosted by me on [00:17:30] Let's Talk About Punjab. And in that I have spoken to a girl who was 17 when she was married to a man who was a terrorist militant, depending how you call it And she runs a school for children who are orphaned.

[00:17:45] Raman: Hmm.

[00:17:46] Abhinandan: Uh, so I would urge you to, I think it's a two-part series.

[00:17:49] Abhinandan: So it's not like I haven't met these people or spoken with these people. I've spoken to them off show, but I have also spoken to them on the show, and what you will hear on the podcast is just a fraction of all that [00:18:00] she told me. Like a 17-year-old girl who was harassed because her husband was a ... And she said, "When I got married, it was arranged marriage."

[00:18:06] Abhinandan: Mm-hmm. She, she didn't know who she was marrying.

[00:18:07] Abhinandan: Yeah.

[00:18:08] Abhinandan: So initially she was like, "Hello, why are you guys after me? Why are you pick-" Yeah. She was picked up and taken to the police station. I'm aware of all that. It's, it's, it's not ... I'm not saying one justifies the other, but I'd just like to know. It's, it's, I think it's important.

[00:18:22] Abhinandan: You want to carry on with some of the mails, uh, uh, Rinchin, Manisha? Yeah.

[00:18:26] Rinchen: Gurpreet Singh says, "Uh, no serious Punjabi wants Khalistan, [00:18:30] but it's sad and unfortunate that Hartosh B- or Tavleen S. and others like them have miserably failed to evolve their ideas since those days, repeating the same stuff and becoming a mouthpiece for the state.

[00:18:40] Rinchen: This is what even a rational, liberal Sikh would dislike. The terror of PP," I think Punjab Police, if I'm not wrong- Hmm ... "is still very much prevalent. Successive governments have used police and protected them. The notion of, notion of Khalsa Raj has an emotional and sentimental value. Who gives rights to a constitutional state to behave in an unconstitutional, barbarian way, [00:19:00] barbaric way?

[00:19:01] Rinchen: Is 7,000 a small number? As Abhinandan said, there are multiple layers to a personality, which is shaped by political, economic and other factors. Admired Manisha and Shardul's understanding. And finally, who killed Kaura? It was the state and its police. P.S. Punjabis don't have m- have a Mandela who will give clo- closure by truth and reconciliation.

[00:19:20] Rinchen: Thank you. Keep, keep up the great work. Always with you." Thank you, Gurpreet.

[00:19:24] Abhinandan: Thank you, Gurpreet.

[00:19:25] Rinchen: Bhavneet Bhinder says, "Hi, NL Hafta team. I'm writing about a discussion on [00:19:30] Sutlej and how the debate eventually came down to numbers. The figures may have been overstated, fair enough, but does that diminish the fear and horror Punjab lived through during the years of militancy?

[00:19:40] Rinchen: My father was posted in Firozpur then, and I was in first grade. My memories are of fear. Colonies locked behind iron gates at sunset, worrying every evening if my grandfather was running, was late returning home, hearing screams from a nearby police station, taking cover under the bed after midnight gunfire, and a loaded gun kept by the bedside every night.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] Rinchen: Long journeys before dawn were marked by silence and anxious faces. The fear wasn't only of militants, it was also of the police. It was everywhere. So when Hartosh argues that numbers matter, I feel it risks overshadowing the lived experiences of Punjabis. Statistics may refine history, but they cannot capture the fear that defined everyday life.

[00:20:18] Rinchen: Best, Bhavneet."

[00:20:20] Josy promo: Hmm.

[00:20:21] Abhinandan: Keshav

[00:20:23] Rinchen: says, "Love the work you are, you are all doing. This is feedback on the app website UX." [00:20:30] Uh, I believe the app needs a UX researcher to do some control group testing, and their report should inform the UX designers. Not sure if you're already doing this. Uh, there seems to be some glaring issues, like podcast shows ordering is a bit weird, and there is no option to change the ordering by recent releases, et cetera.

[00:20:49] Rinchen: Even the landing screen of the app is not that intuitive. Many times I notice myself opening the app and not being interested in the first glance of the news, then moving to podcasts, but think that I don't have an hour right now to listen [00:21:00] to something and close the app. While when I opened it on the website, I found other interesting articles that got overlooked in the app for some reason.

[00:21:07] Rinchen: You might need a session with existing and new subs to best quantify how the app UX actually is. I am not a UX researcher, but can be part of res- research sessions if needed. Thank you, Keshav.

[00:21:18] Abhinandan: So Keshav, we are very important. We're actually l- looking at building our app from scratch, because this is an app that was created a while ago, low cost, whatever we could afford.[00:21:30]

[00:21:30] Abhinandan: In fact, I think ... I'm not a fan of their journalism, but NDTV's app is amazing.

[00:21:34] Raman: Mm.

[00:21:34] Manisha: Yeah.

[00:21:34] Abhinandan: Just the layout-

[00:21:35] Manisha: And it's been like that for a while. Yeah, their app is awesome I mean, they were early movers in the app world.

[00:21:38] Abhinandan: But yeah, I know how much they spent on that app. Yeah. That's their annual budget. So but yeah, we, we should

[00:21:44] Abhinandan: I think now with AI, maybe costs have come down. Uh, I think once we've got our editorial, we, we are gonna be adding some more people on our editorial side, some reporters are coming, Manisha, right?

[00:21:57] Raman: Hmm.

[00:21:57] Abhinandan: Once we have that sorted out, I think next thing [00:22:00] that we'll attack is the tech- It's important. Mm.

[00:22:04] Rinchen: Mm.

[00:22:04] Rinchen: Erbil says, uh, "Just wanted to say that it was really nice to hear Jayashree the last Hafta. Miss her reading the headlines. Having Rinchen on the panel helps ease the pain of not having Jayashree. Thanks." "I enjoy listening to him and like the points he makes. Thanks again." "Also, he has a very, really nice voice.

[00:22:23] Rinchen: Thanks again." "Good decision to get him on Hafta. Would be nice to have him every week. Just one thing, Abhinandan [00:22:30] and Manisha, you guys cut him off too much."

[00:22:32] Manisha: Oh,

[00:22:32] Rinchen: no. No, no, no, no. That's not, doesn't happen. "Seems very disrespectful-" Okay, enough. Okay. No

[00:22:40] Rinchen: carry on, finish. That's all right. "Seems very disrespectful because I feel you're not doing it to the others, although I like that he waits to get a chance and then finish his point, but guys, please let the man talk."

[00:22:50] Manisha: You, who sent this? I am- Tell us honestly, who is Erbil? I have no idea . Who

[00:22:52] Abhinandan: did it? Are you Erbil?

[00:22:54] Abhinandan: Are you actually

[00:22:55] Rinchen: I am not Erbil.

[00:22:56] Abhinandan: No, I think the one thing that, see, the, the combination of [00:23:00] two or three things. One- ... is he's much younger than us.

[00:23:03] Rinchen: Yeah.

[00:23:04] Abhinandan: So one kind of takes liberties with him that one wouldn't take with others. Two, he's from Ladakh, so he's extremely polite. The most polite people in India, definitely.

[00:23:14] Abhinandan: I don't know if on the planet. Um, and uh, third, he's new on the Hafta, so he still has to jostle his way around.

[00:23:22] Rinchen: 100%. "Hey, I'm Risha Zuberi, first year MBBS student. Though I'm embarrassed to admit it, this is my first time [00:23:30] subscribing." Don't be embarrassed. Don't be

[00:23:31] Manisha: embarrassed.

[00:23:32] Rinchen: In- It's

[00:23:32] Manisha: never too late ...

[00:23:33] Rinchen: in my defense, it's from the allowance my dad gives me for food, and-

[00:23:37] Abhinandan: Dude.

[00:23:37] Manisha: Oh, God.

[00:23:38] Rinchen: So sweet ... and I religiously listen to South Central because it's free.

[00:23:41] Abhinandan: Hang on. Uh, Risha, right?

[00:23:43] Rinchen: Yeah, Risha. Risha. Risha.

[00:23:44] Abhinandan: Risha, uh, we shall extend your subscription for a year Uh, our wonderful producer, Amit, please make a note of it. She is a student who is subscribing from her [00:24:00] allowance that her father gives her for food.

[00:24:03] Abhinandan: All you people who are smoking packets of cigarettes and having a beer for ... I mean, she's an MBBS student, so we will extend your subscription for a year. Please feed yourself. When you have a high-paying job, remember to sponsor someone else's subscription. Pay it forward. But people like you, the country's in safe hands.

[00:24:25] Rinchen: I'm writing because I often struggle with how I'm supposed to consume news. After [00:24:30] reading Manufacturing Consent, I realize I sometimes don't know if my opinions are truly my own or simply echoes of what I consume. I don't challenge ideas internally because I lack the knowledge to do so. When I study physics, I question concepts because I have a foundation to build on, but with politics I don't.

[00:24:45] Rinchen: So when I consume content from spaces I broadly agree with, I often accept it uncritically. How does one build the intellectual foundation needed to question information honestly, instead of merely replacing one narrative with another? Great question. Anna, [00:25:00] take it. You

[00:25:00] Raman: are-

[00:25:01] Rinchen: No, you- You make

[00:25:01] Raman: me as from use you tell.

[00:25:03] Rinchen: No, I'm, I need to think about this

[00:25:06] Abhinandan: one bit. Raman Sir, you have a view. Let's l- let experience tell us.

[00:25:09] Raman: No, I think she needs to, uh, read news. I mean, read a variety of news. See, you, you get news from television, you get news, uh, online, and you can get, you get newspapers also. So I think she should just mix up maybe, uh, for seven, eight days she can continuously, say, reading Indian Express 10 [00:25:30] days, and then she should read something else.

[00:25:32] Raman: And then she will start understanding the nuances of news presentation. Hindu is a very good, uh, uh, paper to consume. Indian Express. Times of India for city, city news. If she lives in Delhi, I think, uh, they, she should read Times of India. And of course, she should read us because we, uh, our, our take is offbeat and our take is very different because we are a small team, so we, [00:26:00] we, we, uh, take an in-depth view on any happening thing.

[00:26:04] Raman: So she should read us.

[00:26:07] Abhinandan: So what I would, uh, suggest is that, A, when you're young, and I think this is also something that if you've grown up with social media, the pressure is of having an opinion. I've said this before. When I was your age, I did not have such strong opinions on many things.

[00:26:23] Raman: Yeah.

[00:26:24] Abhinandan: I, I was like, "I don't have a..."

[00:26:26] Abhinandan: And that was not normal in our time because there [00:26:30] was no pressure of having to express it anywhere. Like now you have to express, "Have you spoken up? Have you spoken up? Have you said this? Have you said that?"

[00:26:35] Raman: Yeah. And you have

[00:26:36] Abhinandan: to have a position on everything from, you know, Dabang to Gaza to this, you have to have an opinion.

[00:26:43] Abhinandan: So A, stay away from dogma. And understand your positions will change in life, and it's okay

[00:26:51] Rinchen: Hmm

[00:26:51] Abhinandan: That is important. Bapu's positions used to change so often that he had to write that whatever you want to know about me ... 'Cause people used to say-

[00:26:58] Manisha: Hmm ... "

[00:26:59] Abhinandan: But you [00:27:00] said this last, two last year." He said, "Whatever the last thing I said, go with that as my position."

[00:27:05] Abhinandan: So be willing to change your position. Consume everybody, but it's good to understand where they're coming from. Like, I make a lot of fun of Ayn Rand-

[00:27:13] Josy promo: Hmm ...

[00:27:14] Abhinandan: as a social commentator, as ... But it's not like she was an idiot. No. She, she's really smart, you know? Some of the writings are excellent.

[00:27:23] Josy promo: Hmm.

[00:27:23] Abhinandan: I just don't agree with them, but there's a phase of my life where I did agree with them.

[00:27:27] Abhinandan: Yeah. And then you ... So when you reject that point of view, [00:27:30] you don't reject the person's intellect. You just say, "You know what? Now I know a little more, so I've ... Okay, let's do an experiment. Can you think of two or three things that you've changed your position on in life in the last 15, 20, 30 years? I mean, I can think of two, but Like I've changed my position on death penalty, I've changed my position on pellet guns twice.

[00:27:50] Abhinandan: So you change your position I,

[00:27:51] Raman: I change my position whenever the facts are different, definitely. Yeah. So I think consumption of, uh, you know, knowledge, uh, [00:28:00] through the news that comes out, reports I mean, I think that is more important to b- make the base. And Chomsky as- Once you have the base, then you can

[00:28:08] Abhinandan: make an opinion

[00:28:08] Abhinandan: and Chomsky, as good as he is, is an ideologue. I mean, some of his writings is just-

[00:28:12] Raman: He is an ideologue ...

[00:28:12] Abhinandan: ranty.

[00:28:13] Manisha: Also, it's purana now.

[00:28:14] Abhinandan: Yeah, it's ... I'm

[00:28:15] Manisha: not shocked I think if you ... I think curiosity and empathy, two things if you approach things, uh, with that kind of a mindset, you generally end up learning quite a bit.

[00:28:24] Manisha: One is putting yourself in the other person's shoes is, like, a very classic cliché thing which you [00:28:30] learn as a kid, but it actually goes a long way in life to understand people, circumstances, why things happen. And just being curious. Uh, I also think foundational study in philosophy is important. Um, and I, I think we should at least have those moral science- Yeah

[00:28:48] Manisha: you know, they used to have stupid moral science? Moral science, yeah. The tortoise rabbit race- ... and I don't know what all nonsense. There should be a foundational study of philosophies because it, it really trains you into thinking how different [00:29:00] people thought about things, how they disagreed, how there was a debate.

[00:29:03] Manisha: I think that kind of really helps. It helped me, I think, studying that earlier in life. Um, just to know that people, people are looking at the same thing and coming to different conclusions, debating about something very basic. So that kind of trains your mind a little bit. I don't know why I think that should be introduced in schools-

[00:29:22] Rinchen: 100%

[00:29:23] Manisha: instead of moral-

[00:29:23] Rinchen: School, especially high, like, especially high school, 11th. M- I would recommend high school, but-

[00:29:28] Manisha: Yeah ...

[00:29:29] Rinchen: [00:29:30] anywhere, man, from middle school. Like, philosophy, Western and Indian philosophy- Yeah ... the canons at least.

[00:29:36] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:29:36] Rinchen: Have a basic exposition. Like, you don't have to go into depth, but at least f- train, start training students to s- Mm

[00:29:43] Rinchen: you know, to, to think with some intellectual rigor.

[00:29:46] Manisha: And stories also. Mm. I think when you're kids and if you're reading a lot of stories or even, like, you're hearing stories, it really helps you evolve a sort of a personality that will not accept things easily, I think. [00:30:00] That's true. So yeah, read from childhood.

[00:30:03] Abhinandan: Right

[00:30:06] Rinchen: JLM2, right?

[00:30:07] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[00:30:09] Rinchen: My name is Adil, and the rest I have already said in my Charcha letter, saving a few precious words here. Abhinandan, after all that praise, I briefly hope for a subscriber discount, but I suppose some principles are truly non-negotiable. I'm a medium pacer, but hardly follow cricket.

[00:30:25] Rinchen: Football is the opposite. I watch it and rarely play. I also share your [00:30:30] concern about celebrity culture. Public admiration should come with some public responsibility, yet too often the distance between the two keeps growing. Perhaps that is why independent journalism matters more than ever. In a society grappling with deep inequalities, polarization, and old social hierarchies, asking difficult questions is not a luxury, but a necessity.

[00:30:49] Rinchen: And the Earth too has begun asking questions of us. The heatwaves across continents feel like, feel like, feel less like anomalies and more like warning bells that we ignore at our own peril.

[00:30:59] Abhinandan: [00:31:00] Well, Adil- Hmm ... I'm guessing the praise was in the Haftah letter, Charcha letter, 'cause it's not here. Hmm.

[00:31:05] Rinchen: But - ...

[00:31:06] Abhinandan: but you know what?

[00:31:07] Abhinandan: Why don't you, um- Write to me abhinandansekhri@gmail. Honestly, tell me what you do. And if you are a student and you're very early in your career and 550 bucks is a lot of money for you, happy to give you a discount, but we'll send you the stickers nevertheless, abhinandansekhri@gmail.com. But if you can earn enough, and if you are having a drink or, you know, [00:31:30] watching a film-- I watched this one by the way.

[00:31:31] Abhinandan: Have you guys watched "Odyssey"?

[00:31:34] Raman: Yeah.

[00:31:34] Manisha: No. I'm watching it

[00:31:35] Raman: tomorrow, day after tomorrow. It's

[00:31:35] Manisha: pretty long, no?

[00:31:36] Raman: I did. Sir,

[00:31:38] Abhinandan: So, aapne woh jo classic hai woh Homer's ka, bas usi ka usne kiya hai koshish. Puri ki puri, uh, copy ki hai. Matlab itna us

[00:31:42] Raman: par dham-zham naach-gaana hua, maine dekhi, maine kaha ab kuch hoga, ab kuch hoga, kuch sala hua hi nahi.

[00:31:42] Raman: Ramayan, Ramayan ki tarah hai woh matlab usme you have that Sita and the- Haan woh Gandeev uska nikala. Ramayan hi to hai. Mujhe toh samajh nahi aayi. So I, I was,[00:32:00]

[00:32:04] Raman: I was thinking if, if Valmiki had written Ramayan around that time, did he copy that or what? I mean- Or this was copied by Valmiki. Please. Valmiki was- Or

[00:32:11] Abhinandan: they copied Valmiki.

[00:32:15] Abhinandan: Is the OG. Or they copied Valmiki. Or they copied Va- kyunki Gandeev chadana, wo pura dhwans todna but- Haan. Lekin mujhe, you know, at the end of the day I went to the family said, "What do you think of it?" Matlab mujhe, I was like feeling pressured to say, "Oh my God," you know, because I've read so much. But woh feeling ubhari nahi.

[00:32:29] Abhinandan: Sorry, coming to [00:32:30] Jelam to Ryan. So please, if you are spending 1,200 rupees on an IMAX experience-

[00:32:35] Abhinandan: Hmm ...

[00:32:35] Abhinandan: then I'm afraid I cannot subsidize your subscription. But if you're a young student, glad to. Please mail me abhinandansekhri@gmail.com. So w- why is it supposed to be a big deal, the film?

[00:32:47] Rinchen: Uh-

[00:32:48] Abhinandan: Just so I know when I go on Offer and Awesome I should not start a little trade.

[00:32:50] Abhinandan: It's very

[00:32:51] Raman: grand, uh, I mean-

[00:32:52] Rinchen: I mean, Christopher

[00:32:53] Raman: Nolan does it ... way- Christopher Nolan ... when you watch it on the, this thing- Also- ... it's on IMAX. So it's very grand [00:33:00] scale. Scale is very grand. I mean, it takes you to, I mean, he has tried to create a world of, a different world. So, so, I mean, uh, where, uh, uh- A viewer can may immerse into it.

[00:33:13] Raman: Yes, in terms of stories, it doesn't hold you

[00:33:16] Abhinandan: Na, mujhe toh

[00:33:18] Manisha: nahi hold ki. Apparently it's, it's also, this giving a slight twist to the original, right? Haan. Like there's like a different take on.

[00:33:23] Rinchen: Mm.

[00:33:24] Manisha: Read some, uh, articles on it na, then you'll understand. Ha.

[00:33:27] Abhinandan: Okay. I should read. [00:33:30]

[00:33:31] Manisha: Breaking down. Okay.

[00:33:32] Rinchen: Prakash Iyer says, um, "In the context of post-elections Bengal discussion, Abhinandan is right that the world has changed since the 1980s, but it hasn't much changed, I suppose, since 2021.

[00:33:45] Rinchen: We know there were murders back then after elections, allegedly by TMC of their opponents."

[00:33:50] Manisha: Mm. "

[00:33:50] Rinchen: Manisha referred to it in humor that BJP can argue that throwing eggs or humiliation is hardly as bad as murders, but there's a serious point there."

[00:33:58] Manisha: No, haan, I [00:34:00] was also

[00:34:00] Rinchen: being serious. It wasn't humorous. Mm.

[00:34:01] Rinchen: "Socio-political changes usually happen in excruciating increments. As much as it might be frustrating for elite idealists in their safe cocoons, no murders is quote unquote progress."

[00:34:12] Abhinandan: Mm. "

[00:34:12] Rinchen: It's understandable that we desire, desire to be closer to Western democracy level of political behavior, though not like Jan 6, 2020."

[00:34:20] Abhinandan: Yeah. "

[00:34:21] Rinchen: But that le- level hardly exists in any aspect of Indian society or politics. This is not to say that we should be satisfied, but just that point of 2021 or [00:34:30] history of West Bengal political violence by the usual suspects is not an unreasonable position."

[00:34:35] Raman: Hmm.

[00:34:35] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[00:34:36] Rinchen: I think we understand that. Ready?

[00:34:37] Abhinandan: Basically, we are having a discussion on the, you know, the videos of eggs- Yeah ... being thrown.

[00:34:41] Rinchen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

[00:34:42] Abhinandan: Manish said, going by-

[00:34:44] Rinchen: That's that ...

[00:34:45] Abhinandan: the kind of violence that happened, this is a, a-

[00:34:48] Rinchen: A climb down ... scale

[00:34:48] Abhinandan: down. It's a scale down.

[00:34:50] Manisha: Punit says, "Manish may be... Manisha maybe should drop the line, 'It was an action-packed news week,' while reading headlines.

[00:34:58] Manisha: When Modi's India's [00:35:00] prime minister and Trump is US president, every week is action-packed news."

[00:35:02] Abhinandan: True.

[00:35:03] Manisha: This is about the NL app. "I installed the new iOS update last week. When I clicked to listen to the Hafta, the app was playing Charcha, and this week when I clicked to listen to Charcha, Hafta is playing." So all the way reading this now, but we copy-pasted this and sent it-

[00:35:16] Abhinandan: Yeah

[00:35:16] Manisha: real time- This is fixed ... when it came. Yeah.

[00:35:18] Abhinandan: SNA, uh, c- this is a clearly known one, but do mail us and tell us if it's working fine for you because we have, uh, released an update. "

[00:35:25] Manisha: Hi, team," says Anant Chaturvedi. "I recently watched- Yeah ... the Delhi Union debate [00:35:30] on the motion, Is Indian News Dead? And found myself agreeing with many of Abhinandan's arguments.

[00:35:34] Manisha: What surprised me was Suhasini's position, which felt disconnected from how most Indians actually consume news. Much as I admire The Wire and News Laundry, they're not mainstream in the colloquial sense. Visit almost any middle class household and you're far more likely to find Aaj Tak, Times Now, Amar Ujala, Dainik Jagran that, than independent outlets.

[00:35:52] Manisha: Redefining mainstream media to strengthen an argument weakened it instead. Given that journalists have faced intimidation and even been killed, calling this the [00:36:00] best time to be a journalist also felt tone deaf. I do think mainstream television news is in decline as audiences grow wary of re- relentless political praise while everyday problems worsen.

[00:36:10] Manisha: Even so, I doubt the propaganda ecosystem will disappear anytime soon because powerful interests have every incentive to keep it alive." Jess.

[00:36:19] Abhinandan: So clearly this mail by Amitabh, uh, sorry, this mail- Anant ... by Anant must be several weeks old because I, I think Anant, this protest, the CJP [00:36:30] movement, has very dramatically compressed what would happen in maybe a year or two- Hmm

[00:36:36] Abhinandan: into a month.

[00:36:37] Josy promo: Hmm.

[00:36:38] Abhinandan: The irrelevance of legacy media-

[00:36:40] Manisha: Yeah ...

[00:36:40] Abhinandan: was demonstrated by this movement, and while you're right that individually, like, uh, Aaj Tak or Amar Ujala has market size, but all legacy put together and all the, you know, independent ones put together, it's not like a- Like a given case, it's a [00:37:00] 80/20 ball position type scene.

[00:37:01] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:37:01] Abhinandan: It's a little closer, I would think. Mm. But, um, but yeah, I think things have changed dramatically in the last month. Don't, don't you think? So, I mean, the, the way news spread using Instagram because of the Gen Z.

[00:37:15] Rinchen: Yeah, 100%.

[00:37:17] Abhinandan: The c- um, legacy couldn't keep up, yeah.

[00:37:19] Rinchen: They couldn't.

[00:37:19] Abhinandan: They had to fall in line. Look at our wonderful, uh, reporter Avdesh's story.

[00:37:23] Rinchen: Mm.

[00:37:24] Abhinandan: That story made everybody come to that where did that, you know, rock-laden truck come from? [00:37:30] NDTV was doing a discussion of, although they were trying to spin it.

[00:37:33] Raman: Yeah.

[00:37:33] Abhinandan: Of course, they didn't want to outright say that news laundry. They said police has given this version. Police is saying it's not connected.

[00:37:39] Abhinandan: They did not say that we are doing any investigation because, of course, NDTV doesn't have the resource to. They have no money. Adani ji ka waise is such a loss. They were just saying police's statement is this, police's statement is this. So it was, uh, yeah.

[00:37:53] Rinchen: No, also, I mean, there's a story that we did, one of our interns did about working-class men [00:38:00] who had come to the pr- who had attended the protest.

[00:38:03] Rinchen: I mean, these guys, and not from Delhi, from, from like various states- Mm ... from like Haryana, up in, uh, Rajasthan, whatever all these- Uttar Pradesh ... Uttar Pradesh and all these areas, and they followed this pr- they came there after seeing reels of this protest on Instagram. So n- I mean, forget like TV and- Mm

[00:38:20] Rinchen: and when, uh, also another point I would like to make is when, uh, uh, Dharmendra Pradhan, uh, issued his resignation, uh, I think Manisha, you had pointed out to [00:38:30] check out the live numbers on the U- on the Republic live YouTube stream.

[00:38:34] Raman: Mm.

[00:38:34] Rinchen: It was like 357 or 320- Yeah ... something like that, and like nobody was watching it, and they were just like...

[00:38:40] Rinchen: So you're correct.

[00:38:41] Raman: Initially- Who's that? ... initially TV media, I mean, was completely, they blacked out. Yeah. I mean, first day, second day, I, I was also trying to watch, maybe I'll get something live. You had... And TV always jump to, you know, this kind of situation where you have lots of people. Mm. You automatically, you have a [00:39:00] stage, and you can just show so many people, so you can get, uh, you know, good ATP.

[00:39:05] Raman: But, but they, in this particular case, they... But y- I must say that newspapers picked up.

[00:39:10] Rinchen: Mm,

[00:39:11] Raman: mm. Newspapers, uh, uh, I mean, HT and Times of India also

[00:39:17] Manisha: picked up. Actually, to me, the defining story was Vijeta's story in The Hindu. 100%. Mm,

[00:39:20] Rinchen: mm.

[00:39:21] Manisha: The fact that she nailed the pellet gun story, w- despite Delhi Police repeatedly saying-

[00:39:27] Rinchen: Yeah, repeated

[00:39:28] Manisha: denials

[00:39:28] Manisha: uh, but she stuck to it. She got all the [00:39:30] facts on it. So that is something that'll go far. I mean, so yeah, I feel newspapers still kind of hold it up. And

[00:39:35] Rinchen: the abuse she got for that story on X was- Yeah, yeah ... I mean, my goodness. I mean, from like...

[00:39:40] Manisha: And that's gonna have consequences because- Yeah ... it's in the court.

[00:39:43] Manisha: Yeah. It's gonna have real, like- Yeah ... uh, although the Supreme Court today said it's okay. In exceptional circumstances you can use pellet guns, which is ridiculous, yeah. Somebody had, I think it was, who had said? Aakar Patel or somebody that instead of solving Kashmir, they'll make the rest of India like Kashmir.

[00:39:59] Abhinandan: Hmm. Yeah. [00:40:00]

[00:40:00] Manisha: This is something actually-

[00:40:00] Abhinandan: I think it's so

[00:40:01] Manisha: much of it is-

[00:40:02] Abhinandan: Yeah ...

[00:40:02] Manisha: you know.

[00:40:03] Abhinandan: It had been said a long time ago that they will not make Kashmir the rest of India, they'll make rest of India Kashmir.

[00:40:09] Manisha: Yeah, yeah. In terms of press, in terms of police control. Mm. It's just... Mohsin says, "Hi, Abhinandan. It's really frustrating.

[00:40:17] Manisha: The new update on the app sucks. I want to pay to keep news free, but since last week the update happened when I played Hafta 591, 590 was played, and today the same thing is happening with 591."

[00:40:27] Abhinandan: So Mohsin's complaint is the same one as the earlier. "

[00:40:29] Manisha: [00:40:30] Apologies for the rant. I hope it'll be fixed or I'll just become a silent subscriber."

[00:40:34] Abhinandan: Mohsin-

[00:40:34] Manisha: He's just very upset, yaar. Please fix kar do.

[00:40:36] Abhinandan: This is fixed. This particular glitch is fixed. Aur koi glitch ho to bataiye. Abhinandansekhri@gmail.com. The next big project we will undertake is fixing the app.

[00:40:48] Manisha: Rohit Kulkarni says, "I watched two seasons of 'Freedom at Midnight' web series. In the series they omit a lot of details, but particularly they don't mention VHP, RSS, Savarkar.

[00:40:55] Manisha: They don't even name Nathuram Godse. It frames Gandhi's [00:41:00] assassination solely as a reaction to the 55 crore fund released to Pakistan's fast, while ignoring prior attempts on him. It portrays communal violence as one-sided, like it's a retaliation of Muslim communalism from Hindus. There's no Hindu communalism in the entire series.

[00:41:13] Manisha: Nehru is portrayed as always a sidelining, undermining Patel. There's no role of Mr. Ambedkar except a footnote at the end. The subtle sanitization of history feels far more dangerous than overt propaganda like 'Durandhar'." Thus, I feel we will become like Pakistan, where the so-called liberal voice is [00:41:30] also center right or communal, and there'll be no real reform in any space, political or social.

[00:41:35] Manisha: Very dire Bhavishyavani. I hope events of this week have changed your mind.

[00:41:42] Raman: Kartik

[00:41:43] Manisha: Nair says, "Hi team, hope you're doing well. This is my first time writing to you because I've always appreciated the excellent job you do with Anil Hafta. I want to request you to cover the recent Shalimar Gaon demolition, the Ashok Nagar commercial market issue, and the broader pa- pattern, pattern of demolitions and evictions [00:42:00] carried out by the Delhi government and MCD."

[00:42:02] Manisha: We really want to. Y- we've been on this for about a month, but then something or the other happens, and then it just gets- Yeah. But this, like every meeting, we discuss this. Yeah. These actions have left many middle, lower income families fearing the loss of their homes and livelihood instead of being offered fair rehabilitation.

[00:42:18] Manisha: Delhi Gymkhana issue highlighted questions around property rights. For one section of society, these cases raise similar concerns for ordinary citizens and deserve equal attention. Uh, I absolutely agree with you, and we will get down to it [00:42:30] now, come hail or high water or another protest. Yeah. We will just get down to this.

[00:42:34] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:42:35] Manisha: Bharat Ramchandra says... Bharat, not Bharat. "Hi, NL team. Govind stated that solar power generated has to be used only during the day. Has he not heard of battery storages? I understand transporting it to different parts is difficult and requires high initial costs, but there are so many different applications that can be done, especially for industrial or commercial building users.

[00:42:58] Manisha: No one challenged Govind on this [00:43:00] item, which was surprising."

[00:43:01] Abhinandan: Actually, um, just- "

[00:43:02] Manisha: Haan, kyunki raat ko lightein bhi toh jala sakte hai."

[00:43:05] Abhinandan: You can't, you can s- sure, batteries can, but the, but if you're talking about scale of cities- Yeah ... you cannot store that. The kind of infrastructure you need to store that kind of bijli, one doesn't have, which is why it has to be used up.

[00:43:17] Abhinandan: It's like grid is an efficient way. Not just for India, even other countries. After, you know, which, that is also expensive, but having a grid system so that whatever cannot be used is sold to another state [00:43:30] is the solution. You cannot store that amount of electricity in any sensible economic way is what I've understood.

[00:43:37] Manisha: Hmm. Mohit says, "I heard your discussion regarding election coverage, where institutional decay and the rise of populist leaders around the world were mentioned. In lots of these discussions, there's a tendency to look at Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, and either gloat or feel a sense of being in the same boat as democratic standards decline worldwide.

[00:43:56] Manisha: In my opinion, India does not have much in common with this decline. [00:44:00] In contrast, India's problems have more in common with many neighboring nations, including Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. Here, religion and majoritarianism play a fundamental role, while media and wealthy tycoons tag along for the ride.

[00:44:12] Manisha: In the West, it's quite the opposite. I hope that Media Rumble will involve more voices from neighboring countries rather than from the West, whose commentators already have enough avenues to voice their opinions and reach Indian audiences."

[00:44:24] Abhinandan: Y- yeah, you're absolutely right. It's just that, um, [00:44:30] the-- we wanted to do a media rumble with, you know, guests from Bangladesh and Pakistan.

[00:44:37] Abhinandan: Getting visas for them is not easy, yeah.

[00:44:39] Manisha: From Nepal we can get.

[00:44:41] Abhinandan: Nepal we can get. Uh, now I don't know 'cause now Nepal model, Nepal model is also part of tool tip. Yeah, But in the past we have had huge problems getting people visas. Pakistan ..., Bangladesh is also not easy. Um, so yeah, and I mean, I, I don't know, maybe Philippines, [00:45:00] Indonesia, I mean media is not really something that- No, I mean South

[00:45:02] Manisha: Asia would be great, I think.

[00:45:03] Manisha: Yeah. Somebody from Bangladesh,

[00:45:05] Rinchen: Nepal. We can definitely get someone-- we can definitely get people from Sri Lanka and Nepal. I think that's quite possible whereas-

[00:45:09] Abhinandan: Sri Lanka is possible, although I met, um, someone who's in the news media in Sri Lanka. He says Sri Lanka media is pretty much dead.

[00:45:18] Manisha: It's very

[00:45:21] Abhinandan: authoritarian there.

[00:45:21] Abhinandan: He said Rajapaksa, there's, there's... You can't-- It's not a serious media

[00:45:24] Manisha: landscape. Nepal would be nice actually. We should get someone.

[00:45:27] Abhinandan: Hm.

[00:45:28] Manisha: Manish says, "Hi NL team. [00:45:30] I recently renewed my subscription. Last year on choosing this option, we were provided with RSS feed for podcast. However, with the current subscription that option is gone.

[00:45:38] Manisha: This is the NL-TNM joint subscription. Please provide RSS feedback as your application is very bad for listening to a podcast." So- "I don't consume TNM coverage but still opted for joint subscription just to have RSS feed as last year."

[00:45:53] Abhinandan: Okay. Um, I think it's only available to actually Gamechangers, but I have escalated your request, [00:46:00] Manish.

[00:46:00] Manisha: Satvik Banerjee says, "Cheng Lei, a reporter in CGTN, stayed in prison for over 1,000 days without evidence. Media tycoon Jimmy Lai languishes in jail for 20 years' term. What's wrong with Indian media journos and tycoons that they can't stand up?"

[00:46:16] Abhinandan: Well, I, I think it's not just tycoons, it's, it's an Indian thing among the privileged.

[00:46:24] Abhinandan: They are-- The price they're willing to pay is just very, very [00:46:30] measly for anything. They're too used to having it their way. Hmm.

[00:46:36] Manisha: Ritika Ratnu says, "Indian diplomats are some of the best in the world. Why? Perhaps the MEA diplomat was having an off day. We all do. It's still revealing that on an off day, the instinct is to be loud and wag a finger rather than humility.

[00:46:51] Manisha: Jaishankar is pro- prolific. He speaks posh, can raise eyebrows, tip his head, curl his lips into a faint smile at the right time, but talks like a bully." [00:47:00] He's completely disappeared, yeah.

[00:47:01] Abhinandan: Mm. Everyone's disappeared. Yeah.

[00:47:03] Manisha: This whole, uh-

[00:47:04] Abhinandan: Hmm ...

[00:47:05] Manisha: PM holding a press conference. Perhaps Indians do not feel the loss of PM holding a press conference because questioning leaders was never really part of their daily lives.

[00:47:12] Manisha: It was performed by someone else. Having studied at two top-tier engineering colleges in India and now studying at a Swedish university, I'm amazed at the horizontal eng- engagement here. All students, not just the council, have regular Q&A sessions with the directors. If surveys indicate a course is problematic, the professors are answerable.

[00:47:29] Manisha: [00:47:30] True demos engagement.

[00:47:32] Abhinandan: So I think Ritika has listed out things that Anand had said regarding the press conference. Mm. So these are not her views. She's quoting what she heard on the Hafta, and she's- Shaking her head clearly. Hmm. Anish Srivastava says, "Dear News Roundup team, I have a specific question for Abhinandan regarding the ongoing Google AI Gemini ad campaign during the IPL.

[00:47:53] Abhinandan: The current ads seem to actively dumb down viewers, especially school and college students." Well, how much can you dumb [00:48:00] down someone who's watching IPL? Burn, burn. Bring on the trolls. "For instance, we see Ishaan Khatter's character relying on AI just to figure out how to talk to his girlfriend, or the KKR team using AI to pinpoint what is wrong with the photograph trying to replicate a classic SRK pose when the reference photo is right in front of them.

[00:48:20] Abhinandan: Another ad even depicts a character asking AI if Vastu can help her boyfriend's IPL team win, actively promoting pseudoscience. There are so many examples. [00:48:30] Instead of showcasing AI as a tool for complex work, skill building, or scientific research, these ads promote absolute dependence on tech for basic human common sense.

[00:48:37] Abhinandan: These patterns are already widely mocked as regressive memes in the West. How can we challenge or counter this deliberate dumbing down of the next generation? Is there any way to critically analyze the long-term cognitive impact of such massive ad campaigns?" Hmm. What do you think, sir? Is there any way to examine how a particular campaign impacted society?[00:49:00]

[00:49:00] Abhinandan: I guess by the sales of the product.

[00:49:02] Raman: No, a lot has been written. I mean, uh, um, in fact, if you see, uh, Indian sociologists, uh, they have written about it.

[00:49:11] Abhinandan: I mean, I, I haven't seen this. Have you seen this ad campaign? No, I haven't. AI

[00:49:15] Manisha: Gemini. I just don't watch any-

[00:49:17] Rinchen: I don't watch IPL, so ...

[00:49:18] Manisha: so I don't-- I miss out on all the ads, actually.

[00:49:20] Manisha: Mm. I haven't watched TV in a very long time. But ads

[00:49:22] Abhinandan: do come even on YouTube. Mm. But this ad has been circulated- No, nahi aata hai. Mujhe woh Lux

[00:49:24] Manisha: aur- ... I haven't seen it ... Ramdev ke aate

[00:49:29] Abhinandan: hai [00:49:30] kyunki

[00:49:30] Manisha: main TV nahi dekhti But I have YouTube Premium, so Tumhe Ramdev ke ads aata hai? Mere pass waise Premium hai toh mujhe nahi aate, but jab bhi aate hai it's more like Lux, Cozy underwear and Ramdev and all.

[00:49:36] Manisha: But I- Because I'm watching TV ... have not seen

[00:49:38] Raman: that ad. What is this ad about,

[00:49:38] Abhinandan: Abhinandan? I haven't seen this ad, sir. I, I... The ad that I just got-- have seen about a million times is Abhay Deol-

[00:49:47] Abhinandan: Mm ...

[00:49:47] Abhinandan: and one girl driving- Oh, yeah. ... on a frozen because that was the pre-roll ad for the World Cup. For the World Cup. So you fucking had to watch it 100 times a day

[00:49:56] Manisha: But actually cricket match, I mean, ek time ads used to be [00:50:00] a thing, na?

[00:50:00] Manisha: Yeah. Like-

[00:50:01] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:50:01] Manisha: The ads that'll play during a cricket match. They used to be good also.

[00:50:05] Abhinandan: Okay. Ads. Can you, can you tell me one of your favorite ads, Raman sir? You guys also think. Do you have a, one of your favorite, which- So many ... which, which had, like, an impact, like that's a clever ad? I

[00:50:16] Raman: mostly

[00:50:16] Manisha: have- A clever-

[00:50:17] Raman: these, uh, one-liners of Amul wh- which comes on the board. Uh-

[00:50:20] Abhinandan: Not anymore. Now they're all sucking up to Modi, but there was a time when, yeah, right.

[00:50:24] Raman: Uh, as in when something is happening- It was very current and quick ... during the football World Cup, so they used to come up with one [00:50:30] good, uh, one-liners, you know.

[00:50:31] Raman: Yeah, Amul. So that I used to like.

[00:50:33] Manisha: Taneesha? One of my favorite is the Happydent ad by McCann Erickson, uh, Mumbai.

[00:50:37] Abhinandan: Those people lighting with the-

[00:50:38] Manisha: Because it's just so ridiculous. But it was so... The song is so nice. The idea is so crazy, and it's so beautifully shot. I used to love watching that ad as a kid.

[00:50:48] Manisha: Mm.

[00:50:49] Rinchen: There was one, uh, I don't remember, uh, which is... Uh, I mean, I don't remember exactly the brand, but it is this plywood, I think, where is this, uh, this Sardar family is driving a bus in [00:51:00] South India. And then this kid suddenly, like there's a bus to stop, and he goes into this, like, big haveli. And then it's basically like how this, uh, I think it's a table or a chair that has lasted for generations, and he recognize it.

[00:51:14] Rinchen: So he's- Ah ...

[00:51:16] Manisha: he's

[00:51:16] Rinchen: coming at the end and- That's a really funny one. Yeah ... it's a really funny one. Uh-

[00:51:18] Manisha: And he speaks... He

[00:51:19] Rinchen: starts speaking- He goes to this

[00:51:19] Manisha: old woman-

[00:51:20] Rinchen: Yeah ... and speaks. Starts speaking in Tamil like, you know, she- Oh, yeah,

[00:51:23] Abhinandan: I've seen this ad. Yeah. This is a very cool ad.

[00:51:25] Rinchen: This is a very cool ad. Forget

[00:51:26] Abhinandan: which essentially- Which also is- You know-

[00:51:27] Abhinandan: now this is also promoting, uh, uh, [00:51:30] pseudoscience and- Science ... rebirth. Huh? But-

[00:51:33] Raman: I was listening, uh, uh, you know, a podcast where they were discussing about the ad world, how it is shrinking. Uh, so earlier we used to have big, big ads- Yeah. Mm ... uh, you know, where even, even the, this politician, they used to have those, uh, people.

[00:51:50] Raman: But now this, in this podcast they were saying now the big brands, they are making their own team, small-

[00:51:56] Abhinandan: Yeah, because now they, they use the money to, for, uh, [00:52:00] distribution, not for production.

[00:52:01] Raman: Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:02] Abhinandan: The Prahlad Kakkad ad As

[00:52:07] Manisha: a kid I really liked, uh, "Doodh, doodh, doodh." Yeah. It made, like, milk so look so tasty. It w- even though it was so ridiculous. Like you hate drink- Disgusting.

[00:52:15] Abhinandan: It's the worst

[00:52:16] Manisha: thing ... but it just made it look so nice. You wanted to have like, wow, doodh.

[00:52:20] Abhinandan: You know, one of my- Na achcha hua ... favorite ad campaigns is Amul Ma- Amul Macho Kachhe.

[00:52:25] Abhinandan: "Ye to bada toying hai." Oh, God. Why I found it fascinating- ... 'cause each time I used to see that ad, [00:52:30] I was like, "Who the fuck thought of this?" You know, because, uh, you, you know the- Yeah. So, you know, it had various versions. There was one, this woman, it's just a mid-shot. She's washing clothes on a ghaut. Yeah,

[00:52:42] Abhinandan: I know

[00:52:42] Abhinandan: this.

[00:52:42] Abhinandan: So she's like shaking, you know, vigorously, so it could have various meanings, and she's really enjoying whatever she's doing, and then she holds up- Toying is suggests that the elasticity of the chaddi, you know? Then there's a banda. So I always see that and I was like, you know- ... [00:53:00] how did the creative director go to the client and said, "Sir, I have a campaign for you."

[00:53:04] Abhinandan: That client is sitting. I'm visualizing in my head what is happening in that boardroom, 'cause I have presented to clients. And the creative director is saying, " Yeh toh bada toying hai," is the line. And the guy saying, "What does yeh toh bada toying hai mean?" It means that the elasticity of your kacha is very toying.

[00:53:24] Abhinandan: Oh, yeah. It's a fucking fascinating concept. I think it's, it's a work

[00:53:27] Raman: of genius. I, I remember when [00:53:30] Amul, uh, this Mamta had one, you know, some Amul had come up with, you know, the even, even, even when the party wins he used to come up- they used to come up with, with some very funny ads. Amul-

[00:53:42] Manisha: There's that also, beta sweater pehno.

[00:53:44] Rinchen: Mm.

[00:53:44] Manisha: They're going through a train and then suddenly she starts putting a sweater on a guy- Yeah ... and screaming. But I don't know what that ad was for.

[00:53:50] Rinchen: So the ad I was talking about is Greenply. Yeah. Greenply ka this thing, the young Sikh boy with

[00:53:56] Manisha: the thing coming up with it.

[00:53:56] Rinchen: I think it

[00:53:57] Manisha: was really sweet.

[00:53:57] Manisha: Yeah. This one was damn sweet, I remember it. Simply because [00:54:00] he starts, breaks into this very serious-

[00:54:02] Rinchen: He breaks into character. Yeah. Just starts speaking Tamil, everyone's confused. Oh my God.

[00:54:07] Raman: And there is something, uh, I mean, I don't know, uh, it's not a professional ad, but I remember traveling by train or even when you're driving.

[00:54:17] Raman: So my Mumbai friend had come, so there was one, uh, lady friend, so she said, "Ramanji, shighra patan kya hota [00:54:30] hai?" Hashmi se mile. Yeah. Ah. So if you go any highway, you have Hashmi

[00:54:32] Abhinandan: se mile. Yeah, those are th- we used to do a lot of these jokes on Highway No Plate, which always used to get cut out. 'Cause I mean, whenever you're going between cities, I don't know if it's like that, but back in the day it was- It's still like that,

[00:54:42] Manisha: you know, the movie you got, Sex Doctors.

[00:54:43] Manisha: They still did it.

[00:54:43] Abhinandan: The, like, big bawaseer.

[00:54:46] Manisha: Mm.

[00:54:47] Raman: Bawaseer.

[00:54:47] Abhinandan: So you know the, so, so we always

[00:54:50] Manisha: do- Bawaseer and sex doctors. Yeah. Like, the whole of India is grappling with these two- Or, or

[00:54:54] Abhinandan: rishte hi rishte. I don't know if it still happens. Okay, then Arvind Srinivasa [00:55:00] says, "Hi NL team, I'm a long time follower and evangelizer of NL."

[00:55:04] Abhinandan: Thank you, Arvind.

[00:55:05] Abhinandan: Yay.

[00:55:06] Abhinandan: Appreciate it. We need more like you. In fact, you can evangelize now with these stickers. I will r- repeat. You can scan this QR code. If you're already a subscriber, you will get the sticker for free, just pay for the courier charges. If you're not a subscriber, you can subscribe now, and you will get a discount and this sticker set.

[00:55:24] Abhinandan: Your programming has consistently improved, and your collaboration with News Minute has made you even better. I have critical feedback [00:55:30] regarding your marketing videos. Your reels shots are just vertically put clips from podcasts. Even interesting clips get boring and devoid of context without any B-rolls, visual cues.

[00:55:41] Abhinandan: This clip is a good example where non-Hafta listeners would barely understand what you're talking about.

[00:55:45] Abhinandan: Mm.

[00:55:45] Abhinandan: Good editing could have made it much more engaging Reports. Some of your reports and podcasts are the best in class. Nidhi's report in Hathras, Dilip, LTA Punjab are capable of having a huge audience.

[00:55:57] Abhinandan: They don't get nearly enough marketing. [00:56:00] Why not go around different podcast shows to promote it? Like Ronan Farrow's tour promoting Sam Altman article, or Mehdi Hasan taking every opportunity to promote Zeteo. I'm staying mad since that's the only way. Yes. That's a lovely letter. Arvind, I will save this.

[00:56:15] Abhinandan: We are having a workshop for our promo team, for our producers sometime next week. I shall definitely include this. Amit, can you please do me a favor and cut and paste this on a document? Thank you. You can mail it to me later. Dheeraj says, [00:56:30] "Hi everyone. Thanks for what you do. Something odd is happening in Pune with tree cutting everywhere, including inside Commissioner Bungalow.

[00:56:36] Abhinandan: Recent spate of murders around IT Park, et cetera. Maybe there's a story here." So I don't know. Dheeraj, you're saying that there's a connection between tree cutting and spate of murders?

[00:56:45] Rinchen: I think he's talking about different events.

[00:56:47] Abhinandan: Oh, like things are just-

[00:56:48] Rinchen: Yeah.

[00:56:49] Abhinandan: See, one thing even I've noticed, l- noticed in Delhi, uh, maybe it was happening, it wasn't reported.

[00:56:53] Abhinandan: I could be wrong. Like this guy beat an auto driver to death in Delhi, in [00:57:00] main... I passed that phase so often. No one stopped. Like I was being battered to death, a cab and an auto. Then these minors stabbed one fellow yesterday. Isn't it, Ashok, for standing up to, against harassment of, of a girl? Yes. I mean, Delhi, the rampant murder.

[00:57:20] Abhinandan: Then there are these gangs in Delhi, which were there back in the day, but not for the last 25, 30 years. I don't know what's happening in Delhi also. But anyway, Dheeraj, I hear you, bro, because it's [00:57:30] happening in Delhi Regarding Anand's comment on letters episode, which structure to decide the Election Commission boss does Anand prefer?

[00:57:38] Abhinandan: One with CGI, one without. Hafta began as a place to reveal biases, so where does Anand stand? Anand prefers to mention history of everything, what was before. But I can't remember when he mentioned history of caste or how a religion invented greatest tool of discrimination by birth, whose structure is so hard to fight due to its uniqueness while discussing caste related issues.

[00:57:59] Abhinandan: [00:58:00] Otherwise, he always mentions historical bit to suggest it has been going on from even before Modi came to power. Well, I guess that is itself a revelation of bias, isn't it? Just like mine, but we shall communicate this to Anand. Then Ayush says, "You keep saying that football and basketball are different from cricket and require more effort, but the same reasoning water sports demand far more effort than either of them."

[00:58:23] Abhinandan: I completely agree with you, Ayush. Mm. Completely agree. Swimming is the hardest of them all. Anyone who disagrees clearly [00:58:30] hasn't swum for more than an hour, and both football and basketball actually allow more leisure time than swimming or running. As for fitness, cricket does demand it. Sure, you can play without being especially fit, but that's true of every sport.

[00:58:41] Abhinandan: Leisure play is okay as far as any sport goes. Point is, just because you can doesn't mean people at the highest levels of sport are doing it too. You really overlook the mental side of the sport. Cricket requires far more focus and concentration than people give it credit for. I'm spending way too much time on this debate.

[00:58:58] Rinchen: Great letter.

[00:58:58] Abhinandan: Ayush, not nearly [00:59:00] enough. We will make you spend some more time. When the news cycle allows, we will get back to this debate with all, in all seriousness. I

[00:59:05] Rinchen: think you should call all the subscribers who've had an issue with your cricket takes and just have a roundtable with them. But the only- Maybe this can be a separate company.

[00:59:10] Rinchen: Yeah. We have a- We have a different

[00:59:12] Abhinandan: company

[00:59:16] Manisha: a

[00:59:17] Abhinandan: separate private limited company- Private limited ... which is just debating is cricket- Yeah ... is cricket a sport or not private limited.

[00:59:25] Manisha: Yeah.

[00:59:26] Abhinandan: What's your revenue model? Outrage. Yeah. We just, we [00:59:30] just say this every week.

[00:59:31] Rinchen: Yeah.

[00:59:31] Abhinandan: People get pissed off, and we like- Monetize the outrage. That's- You can

[00:59:34] Manisha: have some merchandise from all the letters that you get.

[00:59:38] Manisha: You can go stand with banners out cricket matches every time.

[00:59:42] Rinchen: Cricket is done.

[00:59:43] Manisha: Can be a cult, man.

[00:59:45] Abhinandan: Who's with me? Who's on this cult? Manan says, "Hey team, an important thing that's not getting media attention is the Anthropic US government order blocking access to best AI models of foreign nationals. It's very concerning.

[00:59:57] Abhinandan: Also, there are so many workers being coerced or paid a little [01:00:00] bit to take their data using camera mounted on helmets. It's a problem out in the open for us. Our data gets used, but we are gated out from benefiting even if we're willing to pay. There should be a law, something that ensures free unlimited access to any model made out of data that someone has contributed directly or indirectly."

[01:00:17] Abhinandan: Manan, I think this is something the world is grappling with, and I think since you wrote this mail on the Anthropic, at least- Mm ... the news cycle has moved forward. There is some developments that have happened. Meanwhile, there is also that one agent that went rogue-

[01:00:29] Raman: [01:00:30] Mm ...

[01:00:30] Abhinandan: and tried to hack into other systems.

[01:00:33] Abhinandan: Yes, and I've been listening to a lot of podcasts around this as well. Clearly regulation around this is coming. It's inevitable. It can't not.

[01:00:41] Raman: Yeah. Today there is a report that I think Anthropic, uh, they have hacked lots of books. Mm. Even the, uh, you know, the very rare books-

[01:00:50] Abhinandan: Mm ...

[01:00:50] Raman: are available on An- uh, Anthropic.

[01:00:53] Raman: So, so the writers are criticizing it So I think you're right, some law is gonna come

[01:00:59] Abhinandan: It will [01:01:00] definitely.

[01:01:00] Raman: Uh-huh.

[01:01:01] Abhinandan: This is by Rushi Jetley. "Dear Haftaa team, I was slightly disappointed about the discussion on Modi and therefore Gujarat. The discussion Gujarat farmers being oppressed currently was not discussed at all.

[01:01:11] Abhinandan: This is very interesting topic, especially since there is going to be Gujarat assembly election in the near future." Mm. Mm. In fact, we are thinking of sending one of our-

[01:01:19] Manisha: Yeah, reporters wants to be stationed in Gujarat in the run-up to elections. So before that maybe like-

[01:01:26] Abhinandan: We'll have full-time

[01:01:26] Manisha: presence there

[01:01:26] Manisha: eight, nine months. So we'll, we will have someone there full time. [01:01:30]

[01:01:30] Abhinandan: Yeah. I've always loved the name Jetley because of Dil Hai Ki Manta Nahi. Now let's see your film trivia. So why, have you guys seen this? One of my favorite

[01:01:39] Manisha: films. I have, but I don't remember who Jetley was. I

[01:01:42] Raman: remember,

[01:01:43] Abhinandan: yeah. Jetley Raghu Jetley was Aamir Khan's name.

[01:01:46] Josy promo: Oh.

[01:01:47] Manisha: What a peculiar name. Raghu is okay, but Jetley is a weird name

[01:01:51] Abhinandan: to give. So Raghu Jetley was the, he was a photographer. Mm. And there was this one scene where he, they are getting away from these goons, and he's supposed to pretend to faint.

[01:01:59] Abhinandan: [01:02:00] Mm.

[01:02:00] Abhinandan: And then as soon as they come, he's supposed to take her so that they can't kidnap her.

[01:02:03] Abhinandan: Mm.

[01:02:04] Abhinandan: But instead of pretending to faint, a rock hits him on the head, he actually faints. So when the goons are dragging her away, she's saying, "Raghu,"

[01:02:15] Abhinandan: So

[01:02:16] Abhinandan: that's why it's-

[01:02:17] Rinchen: Seared into your- ...

[01:02:17] Abhinandan: seared into my head. Yeah. I watched that film like four or five times. The days of watching films four or five times are gone.

[01:02:23] Rinchen: No, I still-

[01:02:23] Abhinandan: It's so

[01:02:23] Rinchen: sad ... I still do it.

[01:02:24] Abhinandan: You do?

[01:02:25] Rinchen: Yeah, yeah,

[01:02:25] Abhinandan: I still do it. Which one have you watched four or five

[01:02:26] Rinchen: times? I s- I watch series four or five times, you know.

[01:02:29] Rinchen: Mm. Entire, like, [01:02:30] series. So currently I'm- Manisha,

[01:02:31] Abhinandan: please give him some more work.

[01:02:34] Rinchen: I did my free time.

[01:02:37] Abhinandan: Why do you have free time? Uh, tell me which ones.

[01:02:40] Rinchen: Please don't take, take, take my weekends away. No, uh, so right now I'm re-watching this show called Person of Interest. Uh, it's on Netflix.

[01:02:49] Abhinandan: Mm.

[01:02:49] Rinchen: It's by Jonathan Nolan, Christopher Nolan's brother, I think.

[01:02:53] Rinchen: And it's, uh, it's a show that, uh, sort of ran between 2011 to 2016. [01:03:00] And, uh- Wow, okay ... it's, it's a, but it's a fanta- it's a show that was way ahead of its time in terms of AI, surveillance. Um, it's a little bit of sci-fi, but a little bit of classic TV drama as well involved. So it's nice. It's an interesting show.

[01:03:12] Rinchen: I would, I mean, I might- How

[01:03:13] Abhinandan: do you re-watch a full series? There's ... I mean, a film I can understand 'cause it's just, like, a two-hour commitment, but series, you know the whole thing already.

[01:03:19] Rinchen: Yeah, but there are, like-

[01:03:21] Manisha: You wanna go back, like Mad Men I watched again.

[01:03:22] Rinchen: Yeah. So the

[01:03:23] Manisha: shows like Succession- Succession I watch all the time

[01:03:25] Manisha: The Wire. Succession and Veep.

[01:03:26] Rinchen: Yeah.

[01:03:27] Manisha: I just watch whenever I have nothing to watch, I just watch it. Let me make

[01:03:29] Abhinandan: a note of it. [01:03:30] I should watch Veep. Veep is- I haven't watched Veep ... spectacular. Mm. It is- This is ... What is it on? So good. It's on, uh, Netflix. It should be

[01:03:31] Manisha: on HBO

[01:03:38] Manisha: I think now. It should be on HBO, uh,

[01:03:39] Rinchen: yeah.

[01:03:39] Abhinandan: Right.

[01:03:40] Manisha: Succession I watch, like, very- Political, political satire. Veep. Yeah.

[01:03:45] Abhinandan: Mm.

[01:03:46] Manisha: Mm. Um, Don't, uh, Look Up is a movie that I can watch again and again. Yeah. It is just so funny.

[01:03:52] Rinchen: Mm.

[01:03:52] Abhinandan: I can watch Interstellar-

[01:03:53] Manisha: It's hilarious ...

[01:03:53] Abhinandan: several times.

[01:03:54] Rinchen: Gladiator, the first part

[01:03:55] Manisha: I watch it- No, Interstellar

[01:03:56] Rinchen: I can't watch ... the first part I'll watch it a million times. Gladiator and Training Day.

[01:03:59] Abhinandan: [01:04:00] Deewar.

[01:04:00] Abhinandan: Deewar. Deewar I watch.

[01:04:01] Rinchen: Yeah.

[01:04:02] Abhinandan: I watch scenes of

[01:04:03] Rinchen: Deewar-

[01:04:03] Abhinandan: Mm ... like, regularly. Even of the- I can watch Godfather.

[01:04:06] Rinchen: Mm. The

[01:04:07] Manisha: Godfather. Yeah, Godfather has a lot of

[01:04:09] Rinchen: re-watch- First, first part especially.

[01:04:11] Manisha: All the three

[01:04:11] Rinchen: parts. Mm, that first part. And Godfathers.

[01:04:13] Abhinandan: Even the one that, that Vivek Oberoi did of p- played, playing Modi, I can watch that.

[01:04:19] Manisha: I haven't seen

[01:04:19] Abhinandan: that. What

[01:04:21] Manisha: was the name of that film? Even the first time I haven't

[01:04:21] Rinchen: seen it. Oh, no. There's a dialogue he writes. Mm. Which one?

[01:04:27] Abhinandan: Mm. How many times can you watch that film? Do let us know. [01:04:30] Then, uh, so those are all the backlog letters. Mm. I hope we have addressed every concern. This week's, I'll just read two or three since we do have a little bit of time.

[01:04:41] Abhinandan: This is anonymous. "Hi. I generally wouldn't be anonymous, but I'm not an Indian citizen so I'm worried that commenting about this would negatively impact my overseas citizen of India status, even though what I'm going to say is mostly benign. Two things. Abhinandan mentioned that it was strategic error that they named the CJP Cockroach Janata Party.

[01:04:59] Abhinandan: I don't think there was [01:05:00] any strategy involved because it started as a meme page." You're absolutely right. Mm.

[01:05:03] Josy promo: Mm.

[01:05:03] Manisha: True. "

[01:05:04] Abhinandan: And I don't think Deepak or any of the founders expected to become this, unless Abhinandan has some inside information about the involvement of a certain common man." I just saw that a police officer was wearing Meta glasses.

[01:05:18] Abhinandan: Can you look into whether Delhi Police has placed a bulk order or something from Meta?

[01:05:21] Raman: Mm.

[01:05:22] Abhinandan: This could have broader privacy implications if Meta is supplying such glasses to law enforcement agencies. That's a very good point actually, Anonymous. But the one thing is, [01:05:30] and Manisha we saw this too, and not the first time.

[01:05:32] Abhinandan: The first time I mentioned this was on Haftaa during COVID, and people said, "You're making this shit up." I was at a, uh... My aunt had passed away during COVID, so there was, you know, very limited whatever you did. So just a few of us family had gone, and there is a service called, uh, I think Antim Yatra-

[01:05:51] Josy promo: Mm

[01:05:51] Abhinandan: who sends an ambulance. Mm. They do the pool wool. Mm. Mm. Mm. You know, they do everything. So the guy who was at Antim Yatra, he comes to you to the cremation [01:06:00] ground to take sort, because not more than three, four people in family. Yeah. And the guy who was there, I said, "Aapka naam?" He pretended he didn't hear me.

[01:06:08] Abhinandan: I asked him two or three times, and finally his name was Aseem.

[01:06:10] Manisha: Hm.

[01:06:11] Abhinandan: He was afraid to be at the cremation ground. He didn't want to say his name.

[01:06:15] Manisha: Ah, yeah.

[01:06:16] Abhinandan: So j- like this young lady- Mm ... you know, she doesn't want to give us her name because of OCA, and it's, it's a legitimate concern. They're threatening that we'll suspend...

[01:06:25] Abhinandan: This is the actual... I think the three basic [01:06:30] legacies that this government has left. One is it's impossible to have conversation with people who you disagree with. Because Modi doesn't do that, no one else does. You know, not talking to the opposition, not sitting with each other in the canteen, not s- People who I've known in the BJP who are happy to meet me personally but will never meet me in public.

[01:06:50] Abhinandan: I used to be gheraoing Manmohan Singh's house.

[01:06:53] Josy promo: Mm.

[01:06:54] Abhinandan: And I would be meeting people in the Congress in public.

[01:06:56] Abhinandan: Mm.

[01:06:57] Abhinandan: You know, they weren't afraid of talking. So you can't [01:07:00] talk.

[01:07:00] Josy promo: Mm.

[01:07:00] Abhinandan: Which is... See, that is one legacy. The other is this whole fear, don't speak your mind. And the third is, the only thing that makes them attractive probably is power.

[01:07:11] Abhinandan: Yeah. And the reason they don't want to relinquish power is then they're not gonna be fucking laid in their lives. They're just a fucking bunch of losers That's

[01:07:19] Manisha: my feeling Yeah, I don't get it. Like the whole pictures

[01:07:20] Raman: and the- Last, last week, uh, last week, uh, you know, I... This, uh, one 𝘒𝘢𝘣𝘢𝘳𝘪 𝘸𝘢𝘭𝘢, he came to my house.

[01:07:28] Raman: So I just wanted to [01:07:30] note down his number. So I asked him his name. So he said, uh, "Sir, 𝘮𝘦 𝘑𝘩𝘶𝘵 𝘯𝘩𝘪 𝘣𝘰𝘭𝘶𝘯𝘨𝘢. 𝘔𝘦𝘳𝘢 𝘯𝘢𝘮 𝘊𝘩𝘢𝘩𝘪𝘥 𝘩𝘢𝘪." I said, "Aapka toh bahut achcha naam hai." He said, "Nahi, yahan pe phir na woh Muslim logon ke saath toh..." I mean, it has, it has a cascading effect. Yeah.

[01:07:31] Raman: That is another... I mean, people fear the state. Now even at the societal level, at the- People fear, yeah ... at the influence. I mean, the kind of fear that, uh, people have. So, uh, so they, they, they're not, uh, let them, uh, you know, entry the, uh, society. Hmm. They are not,[01:08:00]

[01:08:04] Raman: they are not having bus- uh, businesses with them.

[01:08:07] Manisha: I think actually that is one of the worst things that have happened in the past few years. It's the worst thing. That we, we... When were we profiling each other like this as Indians, yeah?

[01:08:14] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[01:08:15] Manisha: Ki Hindu hai, Sikh hai, Muslim hai. Yahan if you're doing a religious thing for Hindus, toh Muslim hai ya nahi.

[01:08:23] Manisha: Abhi by the way they'll all start with the Kanwar

[01:08:25] Abhinandan: Yatra. Hmm.

[01:08:25] Manisha: Hmm. Now all the meat shops are gonna be shut. It'll all be closed. Which waiter [01:08:30] served you? Was he Muslim? Was he not? My God, it's just... I think that's the most disgusting thing that's happened to India. My,

[01:08:35] Rinchen: I mean, my sense is that these things, these sort of thoughts and sort of mindsets, uh, at least growing up, my sense was that a lot of these things, a lot of these things, a lot of these discussions happened behind closed doors.

[01:08:46] Raman: Hmm.

[01:08:47] Rinchen: I mean, when you're talking, you know, in the living room with your family members and stuff, like people would, all this prejudice would come out. But what is so jarring right now to see how out in the open it is, in your face, uh-

[01:08:59] Abhinandan: In [01:09:00] fact, the online disinhibition syndrome- Yeah ... has gone offline. Yes. It was a phenomena that was actually acknowledged in, I think, 2016, '17.

[01:09:08] Abhinandan: They said it is a thing. Social media, you say stuff that you would never say in life. What's happened is that has now become... Because people like MPs, if you see- Mm-hmm ... say it in, you know, sitting in parliament- Hmm ... why will other people hold back,

[01:09:22] Rinchen: yeah? Yeah, I mean, Ramesh- You set

[01:09:23] Abhinandan: the standards, no?

[01:09:24] Rinchen: Like Ramesh Bid- like- Hmm

[01:09:26] Rinchen: Ramesh Bidhuri, what he said to the Muslim MP in parliament. I mean, [01:09:30] if that

[01:09:30] Manisha: is- Every day on prime time- Every day on prime time ... the way they talk about Muslims, BJP spokespersons. Hmm.

[01:09:34] Rinchen: 100%. And one more thing, I think the embrace of mediocrity, uh, especially in the last... And across all spaces, not just media- Yeah

[01:09:43] Rinchen: but like everywhere. Like this, you know, this total embrace of means of mediocre standards, whether it's scholarship, whether it is media, whether it is even, I don't know, business, I guess, even now. So yeah, that's also.

[01:09:57] Abhinandan: I'll read two more emails. This is by Madan. Hmm. Short [01:10:00] and sweet. Love it This is a Madan, short and sweet.

[01:10:04] Abhinandan: "Love it when I see former NL TNM people holding up the same standards and values when they move on to a different organization. Personal opinions below. I don't mind if you don't read these. Chetan Bhagat and Abhisara are not a good combo for a podcast meant to have varied opinions."

[01:10:18] Raman: Hmm. "

[01:10:19] Abhinandan: Producers could have done a better...

[01:10:21] Abhinandan: could have better than CB for 24th July." I must admit and take responsibility, this was Manisha's choice. [01:10:30]

[01:10:30] Rinchen: Throwing you under the bus.

[01:10:32] Manisha: But actually we, I, I was just thinking actually we could have gotten Anurag.

[01:10:36] Abhinandan: Hmm.

[01:10:36] Manisha: Uh, because I guess Chetan, I realize that actually he's everywhere. Mm. He's on every television news channel.

[01:10:40] Manisha: But

[01:10:41] Abhinandan: actually, to be all honest, you had recommended this, this before he was everywhere.

[01:10:44] Manisha: Yeah.

[01:10:45] Abhinandan: But I think, you

[01:10:45] Manisha: know- Because he had written some interesting stuff on Times, Times of India.

[01:10:49] Abhinandan: And-

[01:10:49] Manisha: But I still feel like his Instagram thing was, I guess-

[01:10:52] Abhinandan: See, you know, I think Chetan- ... pretty bang on ... is trashed rather harshly sometimes because of his [01:11:00] positions or because, you know.

[01:11:02] Abhinandan: I actually think he really understands certain things at a very basic level, and I, I can tell you he... You know, some, some of his analysis of just why do people... Not to justify, but, but he understands that. He has sold millions, so he, he gets it sometimes.

[01:11:19] Manisha: Yeah, like his Instagram thing was pretty spot on- Yeah

[01:11:21] Manisha: I felt. His explanation of the Instagram-ification- Yeah ... of the protest.

[01:11:25] Rinchen: Yeah, he understand which way the wind blows. I mean, that's an important-

[01:11:28] Abhinandan: And I think he's a good [01:11:30] kind of, you know, m- measure- barometer for how people think, because he has sold m- millions to the young at some point, you know? He's... Mm. So I think that...

[01:11:42] Abhinandan: Utkarsh Kumar says, "Dear Mr. Sekhri, I hope you read the letter in the following Hafta itself because it is short and will lose meaning if read afterwards. Everything you said about not believing in Gen Z really irked me. I used to think «Hum dekhenge.» Today I can say it. Mr. Sekhri, clock it. We're a generation that has grown up questioning everything."[01:12:00]

[01:12:00] Abhinandan: Hmm. "

[01:12:00] Abhinandan: We have grown up reading The Hunger Games, Divergent, The Maze Runner-" I don't know The Maze Runner. And countless other stories which entered- That's fine ... which centered around one theme, fighting against an oppressive regime. Well, we've learned only one thing. No regime, however strong, is invincible.

[01:12:18] Abhinandan: It will fall. Unlike the boomers, we have not given up on fighting, and we will continue to fight. We will continue it, fight. We are the ones spamming. Jaare, Delhi Police se [01:12:30] lati khane, requesting cops for tear gas, playing Subway Surfer with the police. I think what this protest has done is remove any fear we had of government.

[01:12:37] Abhinandan: Something they fear the most, we are no longer fearful and are coming for you. For me, Utkarsh- Let's go, buddy. I'm ready for you. But Utkarsh, we were actually thinking of having a debate, which again Manisha has suggested, like she has suggested Chetan Bhagat. That I should have a discussion or a debate with Gen Z.

[01:12:57] Abhinandan: M- my view is, [01:13:00] of Gen X, is that we are the toughest generation, which is maybe self-indulgent. Manisha said, "You can, you should debate this with a G- Gen Z-er." So Utkarsh, please mail me, abhinavsekhri@gmail.com. I think it would be an interesting conversation if you're as articulate in person as you are in the mail, no?

[01:13:17] Manisha: Also, yeah, Gen Z revolution Mm. Millennials Mm. Plus everyone sustaining the protest from the doctor to the progressive groups to organizers. We, [01:13:30] it was- We are getting sidelined ... I think we are just get- yeah, in this Gen Z revolution- Mm ... people are forgetting it's millennials, dude.

[01:13:35] Abhinandan: Mm. One of

[01:13:36] Manisha: one. Achcha,

[01:13:37] Abhinandan: you are a

[01:13:39] Manisha: millennial.

[01:13:39] Manisha: Yeah. I was wondering why. I get it. We did it. We- We did

[01:13:41] Abhinandan: it. We did it.

[01:13:41] Manisha: Gen Z was the marketing arm of it.

[01:13:43] Rinchen: Yeah, of course.

[01:13:44] Abhinandan: You were the, you made the product.

[01:13:46] Manisha: We made the product for marketing.

[01:13:49] Abhinandan: And one last mail, just 27 words. Samarth says, "Hi, guys, big fan of the podcast. As a Gen Z subscriber, it kind of pained me that you guys had Chetan Bhagat on your show last week."

[01:13:58] Manisha: People are so upset.

[01:13:59] Abhinandan: I mean, what would a [01:14:00] washed-up has-been have to say about this protest? Oh. It is so much more provocative, relevant and funny than anything he has ever written.

[01:14:07] Manisha: I think he is just not going to come here because he comes once and then there's just letters.

[01:14:11] Abhinandan: No, on that I will say he's very thick-skinned.

[01:14:14] Abhinandan: Mm. Which is good. So I- Which is a very Gen X thing.

[01:14:16] Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.

[01:14:17] Abhinandan: You fucking trash, yeah, whoa, we still want to talk

[01:14:23] Manisha: Okay, he wasn't that bad also, guys. Like

[01:14:25] Abhinandan: Yeah, I don't... But he does get a lot of, uh, you know, flak- Yeah ... where, where-

[01:14:29] Manisha: Okay, I get [01:14:30] refreshing. I'm, I mean, I get that he's probably not as refreshing as you'd want because he's, he's...

[01:14:35] Manisha: Everything that he says is already said, and he's everywhere. Yeah. So that way, Anurag would've been really good, but he wasn't, like, terrible.

[01:14:42] Rinchen: Right. Okay.

[01:14:44] Abhinandan: Right. With that, we will- Right. Okay. He's already everywhere ... bring this episode of Subscribers Take to an end. We will make sure we address every email, every criticism, every suggestion.

[01:14:55] Abhinandan: And Utkarsh, let's try to make that happen. If you get two, three more friends of yours [01:15:00] who are as articulate as you, let's have a discussion, Gen X versus Gen Z. Yeah. Uh, and we'd like to thank all of you who keep us honest. We've had a surge of support in the last week, 10 days.

[01:15:14] Raman: Yes.

[01:15:14] Abhinandan: Please keep it up. Tell your friends and family.

[01:15:16] Abhinandan: And I wanna really tell you guys, many of you, I'm sure, supported us, but supported us more out of pity than thinking that this can actually change things. You've seen how it can change things. You can set the [01:15:30] narrative. You don't have to be the biggest domino, but if you're the first one to get, push the bigger domino, you can have a huge effect.

[01:15:36] Abhinandan: So those of you who've been supporting us forever, see what you made happen. In fact, when we went on the ground, uh, Manisha, Atul, and I, so many people said, "Dude, you guys have been saying this for the last 10 years."

[01:15:47] Manisha: Yeah. "

[01:15:47] Abhinandan: And it's caught on." So that's only because you guys have been supporting us. So get a friend, relative.

[01:15:54] Abhinandan: Here's a QR code. Wear the sticker with pride that you pay to keep news free. It's important, [01:16:00] right? QR code is here, link is in the show notes. With that, I'd like to thank our wonderful sound recordist, Anil, our producer, Amit. I'd like to thank you, Manisha. Thank you- Thank you ... Rinchen.

[01:16:11] Raman: Thank you.

[01:16:11] Abhinandan: We will leave you with this song, which I shall sing for you, Bachcho.

[01:16:23] Abhinandan: Huh? Why? Namaskar.[01:16:30]

[01:16:32] Manisha: Thank you for your subscription. You're changing the world by changing the way news is funded. For the smoothest News Laundry experience, download the News Laundry app. It is the best way to listen to our paywall podcasts. And you'll also get access to all free News Laundry shows. Keep us ad-free and subscriber-funded.

[01:16:50] Manisha: Help us grow. Tell people who listen to you to pay to keep news free. Subscribe to News Laundry. Keep journalism [01:17:00] independent

NL Hafta Subscribers’ Take Ep 8: A special feedback episode

Subscribe now to unlock the story

Why should I pay for news?

You may also like