Paresh Rawal and Anupam Kher share a lot of things in common. Both are fine actors. Both are known to have little tolerance for that pesky little breed of people called sickulars. Both have braved many a Twitter storms. While Rawal is a Bharatiya Janata Party Member of Parliament, Kher’s wife, Kirron Kher, is the BJP legislator from Chandigarh. Both actors are nationalists par excellence. So, when they met each other on super duper nationalist channel Republic TV, it made for, umm, let’s just say interesting viewing.

There was, of course, gupshup about acting, theatre and films, but what really got them talking and bonding like two old peas in a pod were discussions on desh ke dushman, award-wapsi gang and the evil of all evils, Ms Arundhati Roy.

Kher kicked off his show People by asking Rawal what got him into politics.

Modi – ‘kamaal ka banda hai’

Rawal describes Modi as his prime motivation. He says that after Lal Bahadur Shastri, Jayaprakash Narayan and Atal Bihari Vajpayee, it is Prime Minister Narendra Modi who had a huge influence on him. This, he says, is because of the things he achieved after becoming the Gujarat chief minister – one of which was releasing Narmada water into Sabarmati.

The other thing that impressed him was how he handled a farmers’ crisis. He doesn’t remember much of it but says Modi had then said – “muft kisi ko kuch nahin milega (no one will get anything for free)”. This was presumably in response to subsidies or a loan waiver and Rawal thought this to be an indication of a great, great man – “Yeh kamal ka banda hai.” (What an extraordinary man.)

Any conversation on Gujarat and Modi is not complete without the mention of Godhra and Rawal says all institutions apart from the Army were unleashed on Modi to “nail” him somehow. But Modi never became vindictive. He still spoke of taking everyone along together on the path to glory. “Yeh leader hai. Bilkul mardana leader hai…ek koi kone main baith kar rone wala leader nahin hai…” (This is a leader…a manly leader…not someone who cries in a corner.) We’re presuming that last bit was a jibe at Manmohan Singh.

Why they not love us anymore?

Kher and Rawal, then, dwelled on how people have changed in their attitude towards them. Both were loved so much as actors but the moment Rawal joined politics and Kher started “talking about the country” people got divided. Kher asks Rawal how he deals with the flak he gets for his political leanings. Rawal says he has no pretense and that he only acts in front of the camera and not in real life. History will judge him.

This segues into a conversation on nationalism and the lack of it in current times. Rawal feels this is because a majority of Indians didn’t really fight for Independence. He also feels not enough blood was spilt.

“Mujhe lagta hai..jaise Second World War ke andar har ghar se khoon baha…har ghar se koi na koi aadmi mara…Hindustan ke aadhe se zyada logon ne toh azadi ki ladai main hissa hi nahin liya…ghar baithe azadi mil gayi…toh unko keemat nahin hai…agar har ghar se khoon behta…har ghar se ek ek aadmi marta…toh aane waali peediyan bhi desh ki unnati aur raksha ke liye kaam karti.” (I feel just like how in the Second World War, there was bloodshed in every house…someone or the other died in every house…in India not many people fought for Independence…they got it sitting at home…so they don’t realise its value…if there was blood spilt in every house…if every house had one man dead…then future generations would have worked towards the progress and security of the nation.)

Basically, if each and every house had one person dead, we’d probably have a more grateful current generation. Did we tell you there was a charkha placed behind the two gents as a prop?

Rawal is spot on here. Far from fighting the British or shedding any blood, some Indians *cough* Veer *cough* Savarkar *cough* were busy begging the “mighty” for “mercy”. Wonder why members of Rawal’s own party wanted to name India’s biggest oil and gas fields after him. (We know at this point you want to crack some jokes pertaining to that gas bit. Refrain.)

Rawal later explains how his children are “more human” — for example, when there’s talk of gau raksha, they feel it’s not just Muslims who are human, Hindus too are human. Rawal’s children view everything from the prism of humanity: “Sirf jab Musalmaan marta hai toh humko cheenkhna, chillana hai? Zaroori hai…toh Hindu marta hai tab bhi cheekhiye chillayiye..tab bhi aap award wapsi…jo bhi karna hai kariya.” (You want to scream only when a Muslim dies? Why don’t you return awards or whatever it is you want to do when Hindus die?)

That problem called Arundhati Roy

Kher gets Rawal to respond on his tweet on Arundhati Roy and the suggestion to tie her up to a jeep. Rawal says it was never his intention to incite any sort of violence. Logic? If you a tie a woman who sides with them (it’s not clear if he’s talking of Kashmiris or stone pelters) onto a jeep, no one will throw stones: “Bilkul shanti ka kabootar hi chhod raha hun.” (I am releasing the pigeon of peace.)

Kher then asks Rawal: Why do you think they (it’s not clear if he’s talking about Roy or award wapsi peeps or op-ed writers) put out so much poison against their own country? To which Rawal feels “ek toli hai jo gand leke ghoom rahi hai“. (There is a gang that is walking around with filth.)

But what is the solution, Kher wonders, should we ignore them? No never, says Rawal. “Jawab dena chahiye, acchi tarah se dena chahiye.” (Must respond to them.) Rawal feels these people cannot win. They’ve been winning for too too long. Baat desh bhakti ki hai – it is a question of love for one’s country. The termite clan, as Rawal describes them so eloquently, needs to be responded to.

He hopes, however, that in the next 10 years, we see a real bhai-chaara in India – a real brotherhood.

Being Modi

The most interesting discussion comes towards the end where Rawal talks of playing Modi in an upcoming biography. The script needs some working, Rawal and his team know where to begin, but where do they end? And how do we approach the man – through the dazzling worldview of the desh bhakt or through the sullied prism of the “gand waali toli?”

But more importantly: What is Modi’s essence that Rawal would like to capture? He replies, “the anguish in his eyes.” This anguish pertains to putting India on the path to development. Whenever I have met him, I have felt positive, says Rawal. “I have never seen him yawn,” he adds. Never. We know at this point, you are dying to watch this movie. While it’s still in the making, watch the interview instead and you’ll get the drift of what it’ll be all about.

The author can be contacted at manisha.pande1110@gmail.com and on Twitter @MnshaP.